Godolphin golden boys not so golden

[Seabiscuit]

You rarely see a bad word written about Godolphin. Most people write good stuff about how they are leading the World Series of Racing etc (Godolphin being the only ones who actively pursue the titles). They are the golden boys of world racing. And I have to admit they have done well with their horses in turf races all around the globe. You could even well argue that Godolphin are a net positive for racing around the world. However I think the golden boys have lost some of their shine following their poor attempts to win the Kentucky Derby. At this point let me quote the views of well respected USA writer Steven Davidowitz (taken from his Across the Board May 11 article on www.trackmaster.com): (http://www.trackmaster.com):)
"Has Godolphin finally gotten the message? Didn't they take note of the eerily similar performance turned in by Essence of Dubai? Didn't he look like every other Godolphin runner, moving into a wide contending position on the final turn only to flatten out badly in the lane? Will Sheik Mohammad finally accept the reality that he must ship his Derby-worthy-colts to America in time for an American based Derby prep race? Or will these Dubai oil kings continue to squander tens of millions of dollars in stubborn pursuit of Derby glory via their own flawed methods?"
As I said those are not my words but Steven Davidowitz's. But I must say I agree 100% with them. Godolphin keep trying to win the Kentucky Derby with Dubai based preps but at this stage it has all been a miserable failure. Essence of Dubai looked like the member of a chain gang coming down the straight. Looked like his legs were shackled together the way he shuffled down the straight. Their expensive bluebloods have not even looked like winning the Derby. I agree that the horses have to be brought to the USA to contest the prep races here. The same applies to Aidan O'Brien and his runners like Johannesburg.
What Godolphin need to understand is that it does not matter how many coins they have in their piggy bank or how many million dollar yearlings they own. If the horse has the wrong prep for the Derby it cannot win. And all the evidence in so far says a Dubai prep is the wrong prep.
The issue that arises is this: are Godolphin truly good trainers of horses or is it just that their money buys them horses that a village idiot could train so that they happen to win lots of races regardless? At this stage the jury is still out and I have no idea what the answer is. However I do believe that if Godolphin want to win the two greatest races in the world, the Kentucky Derby and the Breeders Cup Classic, they will have to change their training methods to USA based preps instead of Dubai preps. Of course they can keep winning minor trophies on turf in places like Singapore and Hong Kong forever. However I suspect that deep down, in their heart of hearts, Godolphin won't feel fulfilled until they hoist the trophy for the two big ones. At the moment they are like a professional golfer who has scored plenty of wins in ordinary PGA tour events but cannot crack it for a Major. I just hope they are not lying awake at night thinking about it like some pro golfers.

[cheesebeast]

the Kentucky Derby and the Breeders Cup Classic ...
The two greatest races in the world????
Perhaps they are the two greatest races in the USA?

[Seabiscuit]

Yes, cheesebeast. The Kentucky Derby and Breeders Cup Classic are the greatest races in the world not just the USA.
What else would you suggest? NZ Derby perhaps? I think that one is right up there but not quite in the class of the BC Classic and Ky Derby.
Some people would say something like the Arc in Paris. However this race has lost status with the rise of the Breeders Cup Classic. It is now merely a prep race for the European horses wanting to race on Breeders Cup day. For example, Sakhee last year won the Arc by 6 lengths but the climax of his campaign was to race in the BC Classic (where he finished 2nd).
In fact all the major European flat races are now just mere preps for the BC Classic. You see Galileo was the other star European horse last year winning the Epsom and Irish Derbies and that other race at Ascot with the long name. But he also had the climax of his campaign in the BC Classic where he finished down the track.
Of coure Britain's major race is possibly the Grand National but I put hurdlers/steeplechasers to one side as a separate entity.
Someone might say the Japan Cup is the world's leading race. I think it comes in just behind the BC Classic. You don't see Europe's best horses like Giant's Causeway, Galileo and Sakhee in the Japan Cup these days. But you do see them in the BC Classic. The Japan Cup has good Japanese horses in it but only second rate overseas horses in the last few years. People have tired of the novelty.
Another possibility is the Melbourne Cup. It is OK but is really a race for plodders most years.
Singapore, Hong Kong, Macau and South Africa simply don't have races worthy of consideration. The races in Dubai are too new and this year had poor overseas representation. Mainly just Arabian owned horses.
As for the Ky Derby we saw this year the winner of the UAE Derby and the Champion 2yo from Europe last year trying to win it. You won't see them come from all over the globe to win any other Derby.

[shadey]

i dont think the problem with godolphin's horses for the kentucky derby is the prep. but more the fact that they're simply not good enough. godolphin's emphasis has always been europe and it shows. when they buy yearlings and fork out the big bucks it's normally for a horse with a grass pedigree.
i'm guessing here but i think they only recently setted up the american stable with eion harty (who?) and david flores (jockey). the real challenge for godolphin is trying to beat coolmore and that takes place in europe.

[hobbes]

but more the fact that they're simply not good enough.
i would be more inclined to blame their poor performance in the last KD on the travelling 2 days prior to the race. my belief is some horses travel well and some don't but either way it cannot help their performance.

[shadey]

perhaps hobbes, but all godolphin horses are well acustomed to travelling. they spend their winters in dubai before moving to their respective countries and back again throughout their racing lives. i'm sure godolphin have enough experience to avoid travelling problems - though not all the time of course...

[Seabiscuit]

Shadey you must admit that the Ky Derby performances have been below par and that it is possible that the prep is to blame. I think Godolphin could at least try a USA based prep.
I don't think it is quite true that Godolphin have not had the cattle. I read a story the other day that Godolphin spent 40 or 50 million dollars to try to win the Kentucky Derby (on dirt of all things) but failed while another rich man from the Middle East upstaged them by paying just $900 000 for War Emblem (a horse with a USA based prep). I cannot remember where I read that report but I will try to find it and post it for you to read.
Harty did well with Tempera which won the BC Juvenile Fillies with the highest Beyer speed rating for the past decade for either colts or fillies. She was then taken off Harty and given to Godolphin's main trainer. Never won another race but died recently. I am not saying Godolphin's main trainer is no good just that Harty did very well with Tempera so perhaps he is OK. I don't think Godolphin would appoint some hopeless fool as their USA trainer.

[sisyphus]

The balance sheet tells me that Magnier/Coolmore are superb operators.
Do you think it would tell me the same thing about the sheiks?

[jrb]

Ah, but Sisyphus, is the balance sheet the only thing Godolphin cares about (indeed does it need to worry at all about the balance sheet) ?
Coolmore exists pretty much to create stallions. Sure, it has some wonderful fillies - Imagine comes to mind, but they don't race for too long either. Basically, every well bred Coolmore horse races for a short period in preparation for his/her stud career. If Coolmore owned Sakhee, Dubai Millennium, Fantastic Light et al., they would have been at stud at the end of their 3yo careers and we would have been deprived of the greatness of their careers as older horses.
Sure the Sheikhs breed, and sure Coolmore races, but basically the Sheikhs are racers and Coolmore is a breeder.

[shadey]

i think seabiscuit your just jumping on the bandwagon with all those people who critise godolphin's prep. ok it might have a little something to do with it, but they've won so many G1 races how can anybody honestly say that they dont know what they're doing.
let me give you an example of why i think its the horse. they've only won the uk derby once, why? it's not the prep but because they just dont have the right horse to win that race. its always well documented after and sometimes before. look at their past efforts tobougg, best of the bests, they're hardly G1. of course dubai millennium also ran but he didnt stay the trip. its the same for the KY derby. you may say look at street cry but he beat a cack field with a half fit sakhee, and it was during march where the season has pretty much just begun.
i dont know how much cash godolphin invest, obviously its a lot but whatever the case they probably need a little bit of luck to find that right horse for the ky derby.
[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: shadey ]

[Seabiscuit]

Shadey you might be right. Godolphin have not had a large sample of horses run in the Kentucky Derby so no one can say for sure if they have had the cattle or not. However they have done comparatively worse in the Kentucky Derby than other big races. It seems to me logical that it might be best to prep a young horse in the USA rather than prep him in Dubai and fly him into the USA just before the race. Godolphin do have a USA based trainer in Harty. So why not try a USA based prep for a few years? Apart from nothing else a USA based prep will allow Godolphin to test their chances against the competition they will meet in the Derby so they will have a better idea which horse is a genuine contender and which is not. Currently they have no idea if the horse is up to the Derby as they are just racing against their own horses in Dubai.