View Full Version : Bob Moore stories
Tattenhall and Millennium Legend went around in Race6...
yim & ting on board i note. they were 3rd and 1st in the running last time and ran a super fast time.
last night from reasonable barriers they were nowhere near the lead. either the big runs last time out knocked it out of them ( but still they could have raced closer to the pace ) or they were Not Trying. any theories -- i fear the latter.
lest anyone think i am talking through my pocket i had to go check my result on the race and discovered a small loss but i still have no memory of what horse/horses i might have backed.
One race, or one bet rather, mystified me last night. Around 5 o'clock or so, when I checked the odds, there was a large bet of around $50,000 on Allan's Epic Expression in race 8. I took one look at the form, and noted that the horse had chalked up a total 79 lengths behind the winners in its last 5 starts. The horse was having blinker on first time but that should hardly be cause for enthusiasm. One would think that whoever made the bet knew something we didn't. True to its form, the horse lost by 7 lengths again. The thing is this sort of mystery bets pop up from time to time. Does anyone know what's going on? I know there are idiots out there but are there really that many idiots with money to burn?
Re the Tattenhall/Millenium Supreme race...Could it be that the previous runs were much better than they have shown before and the effort buggered them....Could they have backed up too quickly...Were they dead???? Anyone with any ideas???
Sir Timah was bet down from 10/1 to 3/1 and finished last. How come there are so many people with money to burn?
Trainer David Hill was as mystified as any onlooker after watching a massive betting move go down the drain on his six-year-old gelding Sir Timah yesterday in the fifth race. Sir Timah was backed from 10-1 to jump favourite at around 3-1, but never really raised the hopes of his backers.
"I've no idea where that came from," said Hill, who has always insisted that Sir Timah needs an inside gate to do his best. Yesterday, the gelding had stall eight of 12. Sir Timah wound up at the tail of the field.
A similar big punt on Mendoza in the second-last event took a similar path after the gelding's price dropped from 8-1 to 4-1.
alan aitken.
tis a bit hard to believe Hill knew nothing about it but if true it is a big mystery.
Perhaps somebody had a bug on their computer?
interesting theory ufo. not so many mths ago someone managed to type the pin no. into the bet field for a tierce bet. luckily it was only a single tierce and not a multiple so the loss was only lower 6 digits ( thank god the pin no. was only 6 digits ).
but back to computer bugs you should ask JB about the time bob moore was getting wildly excited about a big win on a race. unfortunately at the time of the bet he was attempting to collect more than was in the pool and the old computer bug reared its ugly head. oops.
Any computer that came up with Sir Timah a 3 or 4-1 shot in that race and from that draw ain't worth a bucket of spit.
I seem to recall another big betting move for Sir Timah last season??
I hear there's no doubt Hill didn't know about the move - even before the race he told other trainers he was hoping it would run last to fuck whoever backed it. It did but still not exactly a surprise seeing one of his finish last
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even before the race he told other trainers he was hoping it would run last to fuck whoever backed it.
what a charming man!! willing to give up the prizemoney for the owner and his share of same just so some "?" would not gain from a big plunge.
on the other hand yrs ago a maniac was responsible for causing a horse to get backed from 15's into 5's after the trainer had indicated it wasn't a good bet. it won. maybe then the trainer cops a LOT of flack from the owners.
Not sure D Hill's attitude is really what the Jockey Club seems to be pursuing these days but....yes, a more serious crime than tipping a no hoper! A losing tip is bad luck - a winner not tipped is seen as deliberate trickery. I know of a story re Brian Kan and a visiting jockey, who had been riding a horse of his in work and was having his first race ride on it. Kan was late into the parade yard, the horse was in the market to a minor extent. The owners asked the rider if they should back it and he said no, needs the run. It subsequently ran as jockey expected but Kan was furious and summoned him next day to his office to dress him down for telling them it needed the run. When the jockey said he was just trying to do the right thing by the owners, Kan abused him and told him it was none of his business and not to ever tell an owner of his he shouldn't back his horse.
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on the other hand yrs ago a maniac was responsible for causing a horse to get backed from 15's into 5's after the trainer had indicated it wasn't a good bet. it won.
You are referring to Robert Moore's betting coup on Red Jeans on Jan 29, 96? The story has been immortalised in vol 2 of "Secrets of the Invicible Horse God".
According to the book RM won $56 million that night and had a celebration party at China Max and consumed cases of Dom Perignon. Is this fact or fiction?
The book further stated that RM bumped into jockey Doyle in the airport later on. RM went up to Doyle and told him he was the one responsible for the coup. Doyle replied that after that racee he could no longer get any ride from the trainer TP Wong who thought that Doyle had leaked his secret to some big punters.
Pittsburghphil
07-05-2002, 05:53
It has taken a lot to make me post but..here goes: It was not Brett Doyle who rode Red Jeans, it was Richard Quinn who, like Wong Tang-ping, had no idea why Bob Moore backed Red Jeans so heavily. However, Bob was a genius, albeit a flawed one. Whoever backed Sir Timah - $1-million win, about 6 minutes before the off, had no such imagination - in fact, they were totally racing incompetant.
My views, in simple form: Dye is the worst jockey to be in the top ten in HK in the past 20 years.
Anyone who ends up with Elaine - Biancone's ex, deserves every bit of sympathy - and it won't be David Oughton.
Schreck does a great job but he has protected Dye to some extent and, at the right time, justice has been done.
Big computer teams have been losing because they can't readily adjust to the fact that favourites -especially Size-trained - can win again because they only received a penalty of five or six pounds (Shane came late and just got up).
Margin handicapping is great for Joe Wong from Mong Kok but is crap for real players because the margin means little for real form players. If the game is handicapped on margins there are a lot of horses in light and a lot who are handicapped off the planet when they win.
Yes, Howard Cheng and Eddie Lai can ride - Cliff Lai can't. But the problem is they are inconsistent. You know exactly where Coetzee is going to place a horse and you know he is strong in a finish. Coetzee and Mosse are miles in front of anyone else in HK.
Whyte, like Basil Marcus, is a businessman and will always be on a good chance and always have it in the best place, However, he will also be in lots of trouble in the straight and, if anything at all goes wrong and will not risk anything so that you and I can collect a bet. He is also extremely weak in a finish. However, I am not a solid critic in that I would prefer my horse to have every chance and - good luck in the home straight - rather than be 5 wide and hoping
all the time.
Jockey Rankings:
Equal first: Coetzee and Mosse
Daylight second
Followed by Anton Marcus and maybe Olivier Doleuze.
Forget the rest - they are also rans.
Ivan will be busting a gut to beat Size - how can anyone do something that Ivan hasn't - win the championship in their first year? And Ivan has some good horses (Self Flit etc.). However, JS has not produced Greely Junior and Oriental Pearl yet so it will be interesting.
Finally, the Chinese press have so much to answer for. Masun, please quote their crap but, whatever happens, don't give it any credence.
Ivan is very eager to beat John size, but he is a little bit too old, too sick and too impatient.
He pushed the young horses very hard.
Song for Szesze and Well Best are horses with good potential. Both of them need time. But Ivan had no patience to wait. He pushed them and pushed them and hurt them.
The more Ivan want to beat John, the more chance for his horses to be hurt.
It was not Brett Doyle who rode Red Jeans, it was Richard Quinn
Thanks for the correction, Pittsburghphil. The book got it right. I got it wrong because Quinn and Doyle's name in Chinese are quite similar.
SlimChance
07-05-2002, 14:57
Ivan is very eager to beat John size, but he is a little bit too old, too sick and too impatient
i think this is a bit hard on one of HK most respected trainers. But i could imagine that he wants to go out out a high, if he is think of retiring. i also think JS could make any other trainer in HK look like they are doing something wrong.
Pittsburghphil an absolutely fascinating post which i do not currently have time to respond to in depth. the most interesting question is WHO THE F... ARE YOU?
you seem to possess an inside view of a variety of material ( ie computer teams losing ?? ) and an opinion on jockeys that don't normally gel.
why the anti figjam view. surely a bit overstated as i am sure there have been some very bad jcks make it into the top ten over the yrs??
According to the book RM won $56 million that night and had a celebration party at China Max and consumed cases of Dom Perignon. Is this fact or fiction?
mostly fiction. in 94/95 some used to go to china max but don't know same extended into '96. he was very proud that he had caused the horse to come from 15's into 5's whereas in the same situation i would have been very pissed off.
he would have bet same with bookies and it was their following that caused the plunge. as an example a bet of 150k EW with same once caused bets with the JC in the last 2 mins of 200EW, followed by 300EW, and finally 500EW.
in the red jeans case the "following" must have been even bigger than that as the pools were bigger back then.
re the size of his win that night i would guess 10m to 15m.
did not his career as a serious punter end within 3 mths of same as he became increasingly unhinged from reality.
but back to computer bugs you should ask JB about the time bob moore was getting wildly excited about a big win on a race. unfortunately at the time of the bet he was attempting to collect more than was in the pool and the old computer bug reared its ugly head. oops.
Poor Bob (may he rest in peace) ,i remember this ocassion well , the winner was $20 & the 2nd horse $25 , he entered 4$ & $5 for them into his betting programme & never bothered to check the bets , when the race was over he was v-happy but this turned to extreme anger when he found out the computor bug reared its ugly head & instead of having around 80k on he had a measly $400...i can assure all it wasn`t a good place to be.
Red Jeans , i actually thought it was more than 56m ? , the party at China maxs was a classic, i was to blame for the drink bill , every tasty slut in the joint got at least a bottle.
so JB ( master of the tall story ) what happened to the mythical $56m ?? :p ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p
ridgway !! did not the added e cause bob to go berserk once upon a time.
if bruce got the 56m why was he seeking handouts to pay his legal bills back in the ole home country. :D :p :D :p :D :p :D
I was just kiddin.
Bobs share would have been more like 5-8m.
Like someone said earlier, in this town, as soon as the odds start to shorten...they all follow.
Millennium Legend -- back to the original subject. with wm lai on board and from barrier 2 at least he led this time over the same tk and did as his last 2 starts. despite what didn't seem a particularly fast pace he did not hang on but wtf was ting doing last start?
still suggest might have been to do with some flatness in ML after very fast run before and the distribution of the pace hobbes.
Last night nothing close to ML with any early speed and he cleared the ruck to establish himself as leader. Previous run Marwing keen to hold rail inside him and had horse fast enough, Pleasant Success. Ting had whip on ML to get past as they went past winning post 1st time and cdn't.
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Altho to be honest I was preferring the Bob Moore stories!
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OK back to the Bob Moore story. The author of "Secrets" said "Bob" also stood for "Best of the Best", the way Bob Moore preferred to be known as!
Horny Harry
09-05-2002, 17:09
Would have liked to have had a beer with Best of Bob at some stage...he sounds like he was an interesting character.
Poor old Millenium Legend would be in need of a holiday after the suicide tactics employed by Monkey Ting the other week. Who was he trying to set the race up for? And does it have anything to do with the big , unsuccessful plunges of recent weeks?
rubbintug
09-05-2002, 17:58
wtf was ting doing last start?
To support Shapke's post and to finally put the Millenium Legend matter to rest:
Sectionals Race 541: 27.4 24.1 25.4 25.1 (1.42.0).
Sectionals Race 576: 29.6 24.3 24.3 23.6 (1.41.8).
Now back to Bob Moore please!
Masun, who is writing this God Of Horses series? Is it William?(who use to be Bob's computer geek).
And does the book or series go into any detail about the three influential Chinese guys behind Bob - namely Peter, Francis and Carlos?
Is it William?
No, it's not him. Not 100% sure who the author is.
And does the book or series go into any detail about the three influential Chinese guys behind Bob - namely Peter, Francis and Carlos?
This is the first time I've heard the names of these three gentlemen. Now can you tell please us about them?
jb, for the purpose of history, one of these days you should write an accurate account of what happened in those wild days otherwise 20 years from now, one of the more colourful episodes of racing in HK will be forgotten for good.
The Bob stuff will always make fascinating reading, whether it be factually accurate or not.
How about we get all the God of Gambling stories on its own thread. Might encourage others to come forward with juicy tales, tall or true?
Masun is the book available in English in HK?
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Actually it's a series of books, in Chinese only, available in newsstands. As I've said before, the books are a mixture of fact and fiction - my guess is 20% fact and 80% fiction. It'a a highly romanticised account of the life Bob Moore, as well as the syndicate heads in HK. The "Yankee Computer Genius" and "Aussie Casino Tycoon" are accorded God like status. Even PR hacks employed by these gentlemen wouldn't have been able to do a better job promoting them!
rubbintug
09-05-2002, 19:17
The following happened about 7-8 years ago when Bob Moore was flying and considered himself to be invincible.
Bob use to own a condominium at the Sheraton in Surfers Paradise, Gold Coast, Aus. Often he shuttled between HK and his condo and had himself set up to bet on HK with his laptop and international CIT. He was the talk of the town on the Gold Coast and considered himself a ladies man driving his Benz 500SEL sports car.
One day Bob and a couple of his rent-a-crowd mates walked into a pool bar called "Shooters" right in the heart of Surfers Paradise. He marched in and immediately started barking oders for a table to play pool. It was a quiet Sunday afternoon with only a handful of people in the place and there were many spare tables. The manager, not liking the tone of Bob's voice or his attitude, says there are no tables available. Bob says "Bullshit! - what about all these spare tables here?"
The manager says: "They're reserved!" Bob demands to talk to the manager: "I am the manager" says the bloke. "I'll have you sacked - where's the owner then?" screams Bob.
The manager leads Bob into the little office behind the Bar where the owner happens to be sitting. After five minutes chatting privately with the owner, Bob emerges from the room and screams to the manager "Now get me a fucking table and set up the balls for me."
Surprised, the manager looks at the owner who nods so the manager accedes to Bob's request and sets up the balls on an empty table.
"NOW FUCK OFF - YOU'RE SACKED!" yells Bob.
It turns out that during Bob's five minutes in the office with the owner, Bob purchased the establishment with an offer the owner couldn't refuse on a handshake deal.
The next day Bob reneged on the deal.
Masun , i`m sure Rubintug would have more colourful stories to tell about Bob , i woke up early that he was insane & always tried to keep my distance.
Mayeb the guys published these themselves Masun
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Shapke, I know for sure that's not the case.
His word was his bond !!!!
Masun, who is writing this God Of Horses series? Is it William? (who use to be Bob's computer whiz).
And does the book or series go into any detail about the three influential Chinese guys behind Bob - namely Peter, Francis and Carlos?
i think masun asked about the latter 3. a couple of others here will know more about them than i as i never met them. they were businessmen who were obsessed with betting the horses.
i don't think 'behind' is quite the right word but they were partners with bob in betting with the JC. all involved would also punt independently.
after one of them was picked up in the '97 ICAC bust i think they all gave up the punt ( or at the very least became much more low key ).
what about the "season's wind" rort??
rubbintug
01-06-2002, 08:02
Anyone who has a Lowan's - have a look at the name of Race 4 No 11. Not only the name of the horse - but the word after it.
Pretty spooky - especially given that he was cremated.
Yes....could he still be here? And if you play that horse's last run backwards it has some odd satanic message about a dog that was a movie star?? This is bizarre...
I distinctly heard the words "I bury Blazing Bob" in the Cantonese call of his last race :(
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once again a great story --- still got a big laugh from me at the end even though i have read the story several times.
i have been far more pissed off with him since his demise than i ever was with him when he was still alive. what an a---hole.
how about some of the FAX wars, when he was forced to confront us with the death threats in writing as we would just hang up the phone on him.
how about the time he dislosed he had slept with my ex g/f whilst my daughter and your now wife were asleep in the spare bedroom?? aahhhh the good old days ??
rubbintug
25-03-2004, 22:00
yep....the good ol days!
Arkansasman
27-03-2004, 07:04
These are too good.
Originally posted by Arkansasman
These are too good.
how can you know that without knowing who robert moore was. i guess you know who i am as you contacted me via email ( or was it a PM ) first --- well done btw.
anway do a search for rod dufficy as well ( am sure you already found bill benter and alan woods but others may not have )
http://www.smartgambler.com.au/articles/article_005.html
He fought a battle with the Jockey Club after further phenomenal coups this year led to him being barred from wagering, a move unheard of in a betting-mad society that wagered $HK92 billion on horses last year.
not true on several diffent levels -- more later.
Moore threatened to sue the club, accusing it of infringing his rights.
"I believe I'm the most successful punter in Hong Kong this season," he said at the time.
also not true and bob knew it wasn't at the time he made the claim. he asked both bill and i not to dispute the claim somehow failing to realise we were never going to do so in a million years.
he must have been living in a drug enduced haze to imagine we would do so. however the publicity he sought eventually made the anonymity we craved worthless.
Originally posted by hobbes
am sure you already found bill benter and alan woods but others may not have
hobbes, we've heard quite a few Bob Moore stories already. How about some stories about these two gentlemen? Not the old stories about how they got together, but more recent ones. Can't be the case that they are both too straight to have interesting stories to tell?!
Arkansasman
27-03-2004, 17:28
I had read the link you posted some time ago. It has been a couple of years, but I found some articles about Bob Moore and that is how I knew about him. I tried a search again and could not find these articles.
cheesebeast
27-03-2004, 18:36
Moore announced in August he was quitting gambling and sought $HK5m for his formula but had no offers.
Did Bob not get any offers for his formula??? Did he really try to sell it?:eek: :eek:
rubbintug
27-03-2004, 21:07
Bob didn't really have a formula to sell. He never did have a probability model - he was a cowboy punter!
All he had was betting software which was originally written by Bill Benter. I think a chinese guy called William (from memory?) used to maintain and fine tune it.
Betting software is handy, but it's worthless without a winning set of probabilities.
Handy Harry
28-03-2004, 08:56
Sunday February 25 1996
Punter to sue over block on betting
ONE of the territory's most successful Professional punters claims the Royal Hong Kong Jockey Club froze his betting account because he had won too much money.
New Zealander Robert Moore is now ready to sue the club, accusing it of infringing his human rights.
Speaking from his hi-tech office overlooking Happy Valley racecourse, Mr Moore said: 'I am suing the Jockey Club because I believe they do not have a right to prevent me, without good reason, from earning a living.
'I believe I'm the most successful punter in Hong Kong this season and I've been here earning my living as a professional punter for the past six years.
I contend their actions are against any normal human rights which allow a person to freely earn a living and I will be taking the matter to court.'
His grievance centres on the Club's betting department allegedly freezing his account between races three and four of the meeting on Sunday February 11, the second fixture of that weekend's Lunar New Year double header.
'I started that weekend with $10 million in my account and had $20 million in there going into the Sunday meeting after a good Saturday,' Mr Moore said.
'I lost on the first two races on the Sunday but won $2 million on the quinella and $1.15 million on the tierce on the third race.
'When we then tried to bet in the fourth race my CIT machine came up 'cash overflow, please contact the Jockey Club'.
'My secretary immediately rang and they told her that my account had been frozen.
'How dare they? What gives them the right to freeze my account and to say how much a person can win or can bet? This is what I want to establish in court.'
Mr Moore, owner of Ridgway's Pool Bar in Wan Chai, has consulted solicitors and has instructed specialist racing barrister Kevin Egan to act on his behalf.
Mr Moore claims it took the Jockey Club 25 minutes before they could open him another account with which to bet, transferring some $10 million from his original account into his new one.
'This is where my right to trade freely as a professional punter was infringed,' he said.
'What's more, there was no warning that my account could be frozen, yet they managed to write to me to remind me to top up my account prior to the double-header meeting as there wouldn't be any banking facilities that weekend.'
The Jockey Club's director of betting, Henry Chan, refused to discuss the case.
'We are fully aware of this account but do not feel, in general, that it is right to discuss a private individual's betting account,' he said.
'Nor would it be appropriate if, as Mr Moore says, legal action is pending.'
Handy Harry
28-03-2004, 09:14
Punter ends row with Jockey Club
By Racing Editor LAWRENCE WADEY
Professional gambler Robert Moore yesterday ended his betting dispute with the Royal Hong Kong Jockey Club.
He said the club's betting division has broken new ground by allowing him to open several accounts, all in his own name.
Mr Moore, a New Zealander, makes his living by betting on the horses from his hi-tech office overlooking Happy Valley racecourse.
He had threatened legal action when his betting account was temporarily frozen during the meeting on February 11 after it reached the $21 million limit which the Jockey Club operated on telephone accounts.
Yesterday, Mr Moore said: 'I have created history. The Jockey Club finally got back to me to say I would be allowed to open other accounts in my own name.
'I have done everyone a favour, opening the way for others to have more than one account.' He said he had dropped plans to sue the club.
Mr Moore had said the $21 million limit and the automatic account freeze were a restriction on his right to trade and freely earn a living.
'You can't tell the man in the street that his account has been frozen because he's won too much money,' Mr Moore said.
Henry Chan, the club's director of betting, yesterday interrupted vital meetings prior to leaving for the United States with incoming club supremo Lawrence Wong, to intervene in the case.
Mr Chan refused to comment specifically but it is understood the Jockey Club has broken with traditional betting rules.
'We do not discuss individual telephone betting accounts but as a general rule the vast majority of people only need one account,' he said.
The $21 million limit on telephone betting accounts was written into the Jockey Club's betting software when it was originally designed about 10 years ago.
Masun, who is writing this God Of Horses series?
i think the author has posted here under the nick vincent ( but could be wrong as this is an old memory and probably not true if vincent is a recent member ).
the author also has connections to the NZ team and a couple of years ago appeared in photo in chinese paper holding TT cheque for about $5m.
i think i met him once more then 10 years ago and JB knows him much better.
Is the NZ team still around?
I am not sure I have read the latest in the God of Horse Racing series. Anyway, in Vol. 15, the book explains that Yankee Computer Genius and Casino Tycoon have both left HK due to tax reasons. The interesting tidbit is that according to the author, Casino Tycoon has gone to another country in S.E. Asia. The reason the tycoon has chosen this particular country is that his ambition in life is, like the hero in a famous Chinese martial arts novel, to have seven wives and thinks that he can realise his dream there. Now if only someone can tell me how many wives the tycoon has got now...
wives -- i think none !
i believe the NZ team still bet the TT's and an individual or two may bet with bookies hoping to breakeven on their betting and collect the rebates.
http://www.asianracing.nu/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207
Handy Harry
29-03-2004, 13:41
ANY MORE BIDS???
Gambling guru offers secret to highest bidder
Emma Batha
Flamboyant professional punter Robert Moore, who has won hundreds of millions of dollars on horse racing using computers, is quitting . . . and he is selling his secret to the highest bidder.
Mr Moore, 44, hit the headlines last year when the Jockey Club froze his account because he had won too much money.
But yesterday he revealed he was throwing in the towel because the competition was getting too hot. He claimed dozens of hi-tech gamblers had flooded Hong Kong - particularly from Australia.
The New Zealander recently invited rival syndicates to pay him not to sell his computer program. When they did not bite he decided to offer it up for grabs.
Mr Moore said: 'It gets harder every year and the reason is more gamblers are coming in. Computer-generated gambling has increased at least tenfold since I came here in 1989.
'When I arrived I knew of only two others betting on a large scale. But people have heard about the amount of money you can win in Hong Kong.
'Hong Kong bets more than anywhere else in the world per capita. They come because there is a very big pool.' Mr Moore refused to reveal how much he had won in the past eight years, but said it was 'hundreds of millions'. His record for a single race was $40 million last season at Sha Tin.
He said the programme, which cost around $15,000 in the early 1990s, had been constantly updated and customised. Racing sources estimate it could fetch up to $5 million.
Mr Moore said: 'That would be cheap, but I don't expect to get that. It doesn't concern me if I don't get anything. I'm having fun.'
Gambling insiders could not estimate the number of professional punters in Hong Kong, but said syndicates were coming in from Malaysia and Singapore as well as Australia.
The Jockey Club turnover increased from $80 billion in 1995-96 to $92 billion last year, placing it third behind Japan and the United States.
In Australia, betting is split between states, severely reducing potential winnings on a single event.
The Jockey Club refused to comment on the increase in gambling syndicates.
The club's computers froze Mr Moore's account in February 1996 when it exceeded the $21 million limit. He was later allowed to open multiple accounts after threatening to sue.
Mr Moore, who owns the Wan Chai bar Ridgeway's, said he was now focusing on promoting pool in Asia.
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/abr0712l.jpg
Handy Harry
29-03-2004, 13:50
Tapping into the gambling gold mine
Hedley Thomas speaks to a man who has carved a fortune out of Hong Kong racing.
A range of powerful human emotions awaken at Happy Valley tonight. As the gates crash back for the first race of the new season, feelings of hope, greed, elation, jealousy and, for the losers, depression, will collide in a vast crowd of on-course punters - from tea ladies to tycoons to their tai-tais.
Robert Moore will watch the action closely but clinically, stripped of emotion.
For the past six years, thanks to a battery of computers, a keen eye, a steady nerve and a massive bank roll, the 44-year-old New Zealander has carved a fortune out of the Hong Kong Jockey Club from his flat overlooking the track.
Crack punters like Moore do not factor sentiment into their huge multiple bets. 'You don't win on sentiment, you win on logic,' he says. And he has no intention of ploughing back the tens of millions he is reputed to have won.
He has been described as highly strung and sometimes arrogant. Moore, who is in Rome for this telephone interview, pleads guilty as charged. 'I get highly strung when I'm around stupid people, and there are a lot in this world. I should give them more patience. And I'm working on that.'
The cash he has undoubtedly made on the horses (his best results have come from runs by Red Jeans, Sterling Town and Wonderful Moment) has allowed him to pick and choose his friends and associates, perhaps like selecting numbers on race day. But he was not always in the money.
Seven years ago, he recalls, Christmas Day in Hong Kong was bleak. The little money he had to his name had been lost the day before - to a pick-pocket.
'My girlfriend and I spent the day with no money. She had to lend me $3,000 to keep going,' he says from his Italian hotel suite, a mobile phone at his ear and a sunny day swimming and shopping ahead of him (Moore doesn't travel with luggage - he buys it and the clothes he likes when he lands).
It was only $3,000 - the kind of money you might spend on dinner for four people at a Lan Kwai Fong restaurant. To Moore, it was do-or-die dough. He punted, parlaying it into something greater. The pile grew.
Moore, who now owns several overseas properties, Wan Chai sports bar Ridgeway's, an Italian restaurant in Morrison Hill Road 'and other bits and pieces', did not need to borrow again.
'I've given away between $10 million and $20 million since then, that's an absolute certainty. I'm still giving it away to people who need money. I know lots of them, but, for goodness' sake, don't print that or they'll all be knocking on my door,' he says, laughing.
Being a serious punter (he doesn't like to use the word professional - it connotes full-time occupation, which could mean tax implications) is gruelling and stressful, he says.
Before millions of dollars are bet on several runners in a single race, long hours have been spent viewing videotapes of past runs, going to early-morning trackwork and downloading and analysing statistics and form. Finally, sometimes the day before they jump, Moore begins to unwind huge amounts on his closely guarded selections, crushing the odds of some.
'Last season I had the opportunity to pretty well control the market,' he says.
'I was betting eight to 10 million on a Friday afternoon. But I didn't back winners. I didn't hit the quinellas, and I had a terribly-unlucky run. I'd get results, but instead of winning 40 or 50 million I was breaking even.
'You have to be very alert all the time. One small mistake can cost tens of millions. I made one such mistake last year - I just bet on the wrong race. There are distractions like the telephone. It's stressful. Like the day I rang up to put a bet on and they told me my account was closed.
That put me into chaos! I mean, here I am trying to bet in millions, and I can't get on because I've won too much money. How ridiculous!' The incident in February last year triggered a public threat from Moore to sue the Jockey Club, which had temporarily frozen his telephone account after it reached the $21 million limit. The matter was resolved when Jockey Club chiefs eased their policy by allowing one of its biggest customers to open several accounts.
The headlines that Moore created by clashing with the Jockey Club and speaking to the press, however, were anathema to the few low-profile American, Canadian and Australian syndicates which were using systems and winning fortunes before he arrived.
Moore, whose start in Hong Kong was financed by the head of one of the syndicates, admits: 'I've become a bit of an outcast. I've lost contact with some of them, but I do believe that all the things I've done are right,' he says. 'They see that what I've done is advertising the fact you can win at gambling in Hong Kong. Therefore, they think they might win less, or even begin to lose.
'But they're all multi-millionaires. I can't imagine what they're worrying for. They've got stacks of money.'
Moore says he is not driven by the lure of the lucre as much any more. He is content managing and financing a band, Maximum Drive, and promoting pool tournaments.
'I want to get pool off the ground,' he says. 'It's beneficial to poor countries like the Philippines and to poor people. When I've done that I'll feel serene, I won't be highly strung at all.
'Some people drive and drive for money, all their lives. Why? You only need a certain amount, you don't need to be a mega-millionaire. Take a break and step off the train to have a look around and enjoy life. I laugh and have fun and enjoy the luxuries. But it doesn't mean I won't go to a pauper's house and sit on the ground and eat rice with my fingers - I do it all the time.'
Last month he offered his computer betting system for sale. Originally, he wanted to offload it to the rival syndicates with whom he had fallen out. They weren't interested.
'I only wanted a million for it,' he says. Now, the price is considerably higher to anyone with an ambition to follow in his footsteps.
When Moore first began betting on the horses in his hometown of Auckland three decades ago, he had to cheat just to get into the course.
'I used to take days off school and put sunglasses and my father's gaberdine coat on, and talk in a gruff voice,' he says. 'I was supposed to be 21, but I was only 13. I still got the bets on. I used to do some part-time labour, throwing rocks around, to get $5 to take to the races.'
He's worked in an aluminium smelter, waited tables and caddied in tournaments for golfing geniuses of the calibre of Seve Ballesteros, Payne Stewart and Bob Charles. Moore believes golf, like gambling, is a test of character.
One of his secrets to successful gambling is in trusting his own instinct and judgment, rather than that of others. 'I don't listen to jockeys,' he says. 'I go on the skill of a jockey, not on the mouth of him.
'I was in the Philippines watching Australian horse-racing on Sky Channel, and I had some bets and lost. I was taking tips from other people, which is a mistaken philosophy I was trying to get away from. You can't listen to others. You have to do it yourself.'
He says it is no coincidence that he and the handful of other people who form the successful gambling syndicates in Hong Kong are expatriates. 'Many Chinese gamblers believe in luck and destiny and fate. They believe in tips. You know, 'I know the jockey's mother's uncle, and he said sure win on Saturday', and they'll go by that, rather than do their own form meticulously.
'Over the years, my programme has become more sophisticated and refined. But it is still 80 per cent judgment, 20 per cent statistics.
The other teams fire mathematical statistics at their computers. Their human element is not as large as mine. Yes, it's becoming more competitive. But I'm almost certain I can continue to win.'
------------------
Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial.
Handy Harry
29-03-2004, 13:52
Hi-tech gambler found dead
By NIALL FRASER
FLAMBOYANT professional punter Robert Moore was found dead in his Happy Valley flat last night, after apparently swallowing 10 bags of sleeping pills and turning on his gas cooker.
Moore, 44, was found slumped on a chair in the kitchen of the Wong Nai Chung Road apartment by his 33-year-old wife, Joane Chua, shortly after 8 pm.
Police said there were no suspicious circumstances.
Moore's death follows reports that he had overdosed on pills on Wednesday.
The colourful New Zealander, who claimed to have won 'hundreds of millions' on horse racing using a complex computer technology system, left no suicide note.
Moore was also the owner of Ridgway's Bar in Wan Chai, where his wife was general manager. The bar closed its doors in respect last night.
Police said the couple had been married less than a year but separated a week ago. Moore leaves a 13-year-old daughter from a previous relationship.
'She called at the flat on Friday night and he told her he was depressed and was going to sleep,' a police spokesman said.
'She returned last night to find him on a chair in the kitchen and the gas cooker turned on'.
Investigators found 10 empty bags for sleeping pills in the kitchen bin.
In August, Moore announced he was quitting the gambling business and offering the secret of his multi-million dollar winning formula to the highest bidder. He had not found a buyer.
Moore was one of a high-rolling group of professional punters, mostly Australians and New Zealanders, who bet on Hong Kong races.
He recently said he was focusing on promoting pool in Asia.
He hit the headlines when the Jockey Club froze his account when it reached the $21 million limit the club places on telephone betting last year.
Moore refused to accept the ruling and threatened legal action before the club allowed him to open several accounts, all in his own name.
'I have created history,' he said at the time. 'I have done everyone a favour, opening the way for others to have more than one account.'
Last night his lawyer Kevin Egan said: 'Bob was the sort of character who would go through what you might call mood swings.
'He was up one minute and angry with the world the next.' Ridgway's Bar manager Adam Hamilton-Fletcher said Moore had appeared unhappy.
'I last saw him on Tuesday when he came in with a few friends to play pool. He liked to party but he did seem unhappy about a few things,' he said.
In an interview with the South China Morning Post last month, Moore said: 'I get highly strung when I am around stupid people and there are a lot of them in this world. I should give them more patience and I am working on that.'
Born in Auckland, Moore said he had arrived with A$5, but now owned a bar, restaurant, houses, property and debentures around the world.
He had become an outcast from the four large computer-betting syndicates in Hong Kong.
'With all my clashes with the Jockey Club and also the publicity, it's brought attention to gambling in general,' he said.
'Some people drive and drive for money all their lives. Why? You only need a certain amount. You don't need to be mega-millionaire. Take a break and step off the train, and have a look around and enjoy life.'
:eek: :eek:
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.
Handy Harry
29-03-2004, 13:54
Suicidal gambler rejected friends' pleas to seek help
ALISON SMITH SCMP 20/10/97
Professional gambler Robert Moore, found dead in his flat on Saturday, had rejected Friends' pleas that he seek help for his depression, they revealed yesterday.
He had escaped from hospital after an earlier suicide attempt, they said.
Bruce Ridgway, who was with the colourful 44-year-old New Zealander when he tried to commit suicide last Monday, said he had manipulated doctors to get sleeping pills. He had refused advice from friends and medical emergency services that he needed surveillance.
'There were 16 police and ambulance officers in the room, with the psychiatrist and myself all trying to talk Bob into going to the hospital,' Mr Ridgway said.
'But he didn't want to go. He was completely of the opinion that it didn't matter what the hospital did for him, it was up to a person to decide what he was going to do.
'He has always been in control of his destiny - he arrived in Hong Kong with virtually nothing and made a fortune.' Moore had also attempted suicide on Wednesday. He was found dead in his Happy Valley flat on Saturday after apparently swallowing 10 bags of sleeping pills and turning on his gas cooker. He had tipped two winning horses the same day.
His estranged wife Joane Chua will identify the body this morning while his mother Ngaire, a close friend and possibly his brother fly in from New Zealand today.
Mr Ridgway, a friend of 20 years and namesake of Moore's bar in Wan Chai, said the gambler had been seeing a psychiatrist after going to Ruttonjee Hospital in extreme despair last week.
It had taken several police officers to restrain the burly 1.8-metre-tall man and he eventually escaped to his flat where he received treatment to help him sleep.
The depression continued and friends were unable to convince him to seek surveillance.
He gave millions of dollars away 'to anybody who asked' and hosted all-expenses-paid parties overseas even as his multi million dollar stash dwindled.
One friend who did not want to be named said Moore was often misunderstood because of his mood swings, which were due to a medical condition. 'He was ill, he was a very complicated man. It is extremely sad,' he said.
Handy Harry
29-03-2004, 14:41
14 May 2003 03:56 PM
V-doubtful Bob commited suicide because he never got an invite to the party , according to Bruce he was frequently mentioning suicide in the weeks/months leading up to his death & had tried but failed several days earlier.
At the time Bob was suffering from massive depression , probably due to losing his money , wife , looks & friends would have been the main reasons ?
28 June 2001 09:41 AM
could have been a contributing trigger as opposed to the underlying motive cause. certainly a slightly haunting image... bob committing suicide alone in the outer darkness while his peers party.
conversely, given his distressed state, not inconceivable that an invitation would have had the same effect... or even a party atmosphere, had he attended.
unknowable, but certainly not imponderable.
27 June 2001 10:55 PM
does anyone think it was cause noone invited him to the party ??
27 June 2001 01:42 PM
Doesn`t it bring back memories ?
For some unknown reason I always thought Bob died in December but I see it was Oct 18 which by coincedence was the same night Alan hosted a giant party for a host of reasons.
27 June 2001 11:11 AM
funny you should ask that question peter as anth has been looking for something on the SMH site for over an hour.
nothing since the original arrest article but he was planning to email the solicitor to ask what has transpired. will post any update here.
27 June 2001 10:31 AM
has there been much mention of ridgeway in press since his arrest?
we're having a game of FootPool
rotflmfao. i was the first one to be ejected / banned from ridgways by "my good friend" Bob ( 3 days after it opened ). :) :) :)
a good thing too as then i did not have to go to his pool tournaments or other events.
cheesebeast
29-03-2004, 17:14
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by hobbes
am sure you already found bill benter and alan woods but others may not have
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by masun
hobbes, we've heard quite a few Bob Moore stories already. How about some stories about these two gentlemen? Not the old stories about how they got together, but more recent ones. Can't be the case that they are both too straight to have interesting stories to tell?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I met that Alan Woods guy once Masun and he's as dull as ditchwater! ;) ;) :D :D
Handy Harry
29-03-2004, 17:48
Last time I saw him Cheesy he was in some bar with about twenty girls hanging off him all laughing and giggling....cant be all that dull? :p
hey pittspill you must be one big dimwit. bet u couldna pick a winner to save your miserable life.
rubbintug
01-04-2004, 20:09
Shane Dye=Fig Jam (stands for: Fuck I'm Good, Just Ask Me)?????
Read Pittsburg Phil's post below (two years ago)
rubbintug
01-04-2004, 20:25
And Hobbes, I think Author/Vincent = Mandarin - remember Chinese guy who use to sell us Pizza/Ice Cream when it was supposedly illegal???
cheesebeast
02-04-2004, 00:23
Could be Victor?
Profile For victor
Location hongkong
Interests movies
Occupation writer
See post below!
Dyeing in HK (http://www.asianracing.nu/vb/showthread.php?threadid=180&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)
rubbintug & CB = all correct. he has more than 1 nick !:p
Actually it's a series of books, in Chinese only, available in newsstands. As I've said before, the books are a mixture of fact and fiction - my guess is 20% fact and 80% fiction. It'a a highly romanticised account of the life Bob Moore, as well as the syndicate heads in HK. The "Yankee Computer Genius" and "Aussie Casino Tycoon" are accorded God like status. Even PR hacks employed by these gentlemen wouldn't have been able to do a better job promoting them!
w00t w00t!
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
The way some things are crunching down in Hong Kong betting now, you'd think Bob Moore was back from the dead!!!!!
There are people on this chatsite who have the capacity to do this - perhaps it is you? - but I give them credit for more subtlety and more concern for their eventual payout odds too!
Is there a new plunge team in town? Any thoughts?
Or is it some attempt by one of the megateams to drive out competition? :eek: :cool:
cheesebeast
27-03-2005, 19:33
Went off a bit early on Carry the Magic yesterday. :eek:
Some little old lady went barging past me to get to the HKJC with her $100 shouting Race 6 #10 Sure Win!
Yeah there has been about 5 crashing odds in the last month or two. Most making the frame. Hmmm. I wonder who that would be...Maybe its the Macau boys! But whoever it is - they know 'something' the rest of us obviously don't. Can you remember which yards have had the big moves?
My count is a lot higher than five...S Dye has ridden a lot of them :cool:
Doh! Yeah you are right he has hasn't he... Probably back to his 'old tricks' again since he doesn't get that many plum rides for Size anymore. I must remember to ask him next time see him done in Olivers Deli buying his chocolate.
Anyone want to fess up to dirty dealings with the naughty little midget?
cheesebeast
19-05-2005, 21:06
;)
cheesebeast
14-06-2007, 17:13
.
leviathan
18-06-2007, 15:30
Any deliberate reason for this fax post 2 years since this thread went inactive cheesebeast?
how many of you can remember, or guess, who wrote this choice little piece??
the emails below should be read from the bottom up.
Bob came to my place one night & told me about the bet. he wanted to know the definition of "a yard or so" ( which is how the commentator described the putt ) & i indicated i thought it meant somewhere between 3 feet + a small no. of inches.
he then showed me the video more than once, but did not mention any speck of dirt.
i thought it was a few inches short of 3 feet & asked why he would not insist Lawrence paid.
he said Lawrence would never pay but in fact neither would Bob have paid even if all agreed he was wrong.
about 5 years before this episode John Simon, Bob & I had been playing liar's poker in Neptune I ( aaahh those were the days ) & Bob & I had a HKD25K bet related to the rules of the game. it was soon clear i had won the bet but Bob hated to lose so he shouted & screamed etc etc until John Simon persuaded me to forget the bet in order to shut Bob up.
betting with friends is generally not a good idea!!!!
A few comments:
Whilst it is painfully obvious it was Bob Moore who sent that to Wadey, Bob always denied it to the day he died.
The spooky thing is that I can hear Bob's voice as I read the fax...
Peter Green and Nora's guesses were certainly feasible!
I tend to recall the reason why Bob had it in for Lawrence at the time...They had a HK100k bet between them to resolve a dispute as to how far a missed putt was that a certain famous golfer had missed to lose the British Open about 10 years prior. Bob said 3 feet or less- Lawrence said more than 3 feet. Extreme measures were undertaken to establish the answer, including Bob ringing and waking the then retired famous golfer at 3am in the USA to ask him how far the putt was that he choked on. The retired golfer was non-committal and sat on the fence. Bob then arranged to have the video footage of the putt sent to him from a golfing association. On watching the slow motion replay, Bob spotted a speck of dirt on the ball and, watching frame by frame, was able to calculate the rotations of the ball x the diameter = less than 3 feet. Problem was, Bob was the only person in the world that could see the speck of dirt on the ball despite showing scores of people.
Bob claimed victory and demanded payment but Lawrence stood his ground. So Bob went on a rampaging quest to brand Lawrence a welcher to all and sundry.
I can confirm that it is my handwriting at the bottom of the fax "An anonymous letter sent to Lawrence"
I can also confirm that it is my doodling at the bottom of the page!... So Imaufo, thanks for the consultation/prognosis. Do I owe you anything? Can I claim that back on Medicare?
I also have a Fax War file that I often sift through and reminisce... cheers Rubbintug
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:01 PM
i never met bob, but from things i've heard, it seems a bit too well-written to have come directly from him???
anonymous faxing - has that slight mediterranean / balkan stiletto in the back feel to it. ****? but doesn't quite sound like his precise variety of bile.
only other guess would be ****, who certainly had it in for the target in a big way and would have been trying to white ant him out of ****'s favour at the time. i'll put my money on him. anon
as many have guessed it was from the late lamented & infamous R. J. Moore during the time period of the "fax wars".
i think these may have originated when Bob started shouting & screaming over the phone and I would hang up on him. of course as time went on so did many others but I may have been the trailblazer in terms of slamming the phone down on Bob. ( Hobbes )
Lol @ Gk...how do you come up with em???? !!!! :) Imaufo
Quoting gk
You can lay Louisiana to an insurance claim it's Bob.
Bob trading at Quoting Matt <matt@..>:
No idea before my time Dec 96 - from fax no. 8990673 :-):-)
Bob seems to be running a warm favourite at the moment though
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:24 PM
Jeez Imaufo, that's a dark answer! I would guess the same... so what's the correct answer Dad?
any other guesses 1st ??? des, gavin k, hats, matt, nori, pjg, timv, swu ???
Imaufo also said "Ha ha...as my mate Seabiscuit says " madness and genius sit at the same table" --- I think its a good quote. Cheers A "
Its someone who doodles...meaning that they might have a creative/ artistic bent that hasnt quite come out the right way and thus they are feeling quite negative about life and are performing classic levels of transference...transferring their own personal demons & and bitter thoughts onto another person ( or thing) so that they make feel better about themeselves.
Thats my best guess. So I would guess Bob Moore. Imaufo
leviathan
19-06-2007, 06:20
Fascinating
Further proof the human mind is like a magnet - like with like repels whilst opposites attract...
You always feel alive when a character such as Bob Moore is present.
Must have been interesting times :))
I never met Bob Moore but I think you are right Leviathan...people like him seem to cause everyone a great deal of stress when they around... yet its funny how these same types of people seem to be greatly missed once they are gone?
Its a pity he didnt live another ten years at least so that there would be a lot more BM stories.
My favourite story ...i think JB might have told me this one...was when Bob Moore went into a pool room and, upon getting kicked out for bad behaviour or drunkeness... went in with cash in hand and bought the place.... then fired the manager.
leviathan
20-06-2007, 18:49
Yes its an emotional reaction - Bob Moore types cause feelings to be displaced & placed into motion - creating both positive & negative emotions.
Bland characters generate little energy & therefore have little impact on others, whilst gregarious types are often cyclonic in their energy & will always be remembered :)
Simple physics - imagine everyone you meet in your life could be represented on one gigantic synoptic weather map ...
Everyone remembers the big cyclones from many years ago dont they???
leviathan
22-06-2007, 09:12
We have got off subject a little..
If anyone has any more Bob Moore stories please do tell - he sounds like a real character thats for sure - its all very entertaining..
He certainly lived life :)
bartender
12-01-2009, 00:57
I worked at Ridgeways for a while and played pool with Bob on occasions.
He would hold pool tournaments with the likes of Steve Davis, Jimmy white, Sam torrence Payne stewart plus many others.
He was generous to the staff.. give them cash bonuses at months end plus wedneday nights were free drinks for ladies and he would even pay them 10 hk dollars for every drink they orderded. Crazy times.
Top night for lot's of regulars when his tips came in like Red Jeans.
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