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Friday, May 3, 2002
UK bookmaker seeks partnership
Jockey Club approached over joint operation if soccer betting legalised after World Cup
JIMMY CHEUNG
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A UK bookmaker has proposed forming a partnership with the Jockey Club if soccer betting is legalised in Hong Kong.
The Government is due to make a decision after the World Cup finishes next month.
Meanwhile, an amendment bill to tighten enforcement against offshore gambling will be tabled for a final vote later this month.
Michael Carlton, chief executive of Victor Chandler Worldwide (VCW), a UK licensed bookmaker, yesterday claimed that gamblers would patronise illegal bookmakers after overseas licensed operators complied with the new law.
"It will actually produce the worst of all possible solutions. It's going to result in a charter for illegal bookmakers," he said adding a better approach would be to allow overseas operators to run the business and be taxed.
Murray Burton, head of VCW in Asia, said $150 billion worth of bets were being leaked to illegal operators each year.
He said the company had approached the Jockey Club about the possibility of forging a partnership in the event of a go-ahead from the Government, although the club's response was "low-key".
A spokeswoman for the Home Affairs Bureau said a public consultation on gambling last year showed people supported the long-established policy of restricting gambling to a limited number of authorised outlets only.
The amendment bill only served to enhance the policy, she added.
Democratic Party legislator Andrew Cheng Kar-foo, who is also head of the bills committee, rejected the company's suggestion that the bill would benefit small illegal operators.
He said it was too early to talk about how soccer betting should be regulated.
A spokeswoman for the Jockey Club admitted it had been approached by offshore bookmakers on soccer betting but declined to go into details.
She said the Club was willing and able to organise soccer betting if the Government so decided.
Unlike overseas operators, the Jockey Club would stick to the principle of being non-profit-making and would not allow betting on credit, she said.
In a survey commissioned by VCW involving 503 respondents in February, one in seven people said they would bet on the World Cup, which starts on May 31.
Forty-five per cent said they had bet on sports or horse racing in the past 12 months. Of the 77 per cent who said they would watch the World Cup, 15 per cent said they were likely to place bets.
If soccer betting is to be legalised in HK, most definitely want it to be operated by someone other than the JC -- monopoly is never a good thing.
SlimChance
07-05-2002, 15:04
Yep monoplies are never a good thing. However in the case of soccer gambling i just cant see that the JC will be able to compete with illegals and internet site if the government sticks with betting tax on turnover. I think the only way for the JC to compete would be with a profits tax, and so they would be under presure to run a tight ship.
I cant see why the JC would want to do a joint venture - surely they have the resources to to it themselves!
[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: SlimChance ]
I wouldn't think the HKJC could be said to have a monopoly if it gets soccer betting.
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PUNISHMYTITS LIVE (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/punishmytits)
i think the gov't ( and the HKJC ) is f.....! i think macau and several of the overseas sites quote soccer prices with a vigorish of 5%. the illegals and at least one overseas site i have seen have a 2.5% vigorish.
so what are they to do ?? if they use a 10% vigorish they will just promote the concept and the business will go elsewhere.
if they try a competitive 5% vig then i could imagine the racing turnover plumetting so their total income declines.
either way the introduction of soccer betting could be a joke ( imagine if they have a 10% vig and the t/over is trivial )or could lead to a significant decline in income for both JC and gov't.
Tuesday, May 7, 2002
MARGARET NG Betting bill spells foul play
The Government's amendment bill on gambling is having a rough ride in the Legislative Council and little wonder. The policy it aims to introduce is ill thought-out; the practicality of enforcement is uncertain; and the timing is out of tune with the ongoing consultation on football betting. Even the drafting is erratic - it is a nightmare for all those involved in examining the bill. The Gambling (Amendment) Bill's fundamental aim is to criminalise extraterritorial gambling and related activities including facilitating and promoting such gaming.
Under existing law, it is a crime to bet on football in Hong Kong, but not a crime to place a bet with an overseas bookmaker on a football match outside the SAR. It is not a crime to place a bet in Hong Kong on horse racing in Macau or anywhere outside Hong Kong with a bookmaker in any of those places.
If the bill is passed, it will be a criminal offence to bet in Hong Kong with a bookmaker anywhere in the world on horse racing or football or any kind of gaming event which takes place outside Hong Kong.
It will also be a criminal offence for an overseas bookmaker to accept a bet from a person in Hong Kong. If, say, a person places a bet in Hong Kong with an Australian bookmaker on a race in Australia, he and his bookmaker each commit a criminal offence, according to the bill.
Legco is assured that the Government is unlikely to apply for extradition of the operator of any overseas bookmaker accused of accepting a bet from Hong Kong because of the unwarranted expense. But the Government reserves the right to arrest and charge that person for the offence if he should come to Hong Kong. This is notwithstanding the fact that what that person has done is perfectly legal in his country.
The Government does not fear that such ridiculous extraterritorial jurisdiction will invite protest - or scorn - from other countries for infringing their sovereignty. Legco members were told that similar extraterritorial gambling laws are already well-established in the US. That may be so, but what is the reason for Hong Kong to embark on such extraordinary conduct?
It is a principle of criminal legislation that one should legislate only if it is necessary in order to address a mischief. There has to be evidence of the necessity to do so before passing legislation to curtail the freedom of the individual. In the case of the gambling amendment, there is no such evidence.
What the Government has been at pains to convince the public is that the promotion of betting on Macau horse racing and dog racing, together with Internet gambling, are undermining revenue for the Hong Kong Jockey Club, which operates horse races and Mark Six.
Supposing this is true, the loss of revenue still does not justify criminalisation. If lots of Hong Kong citizens take to spending their money in Shenzhen to enjoy themselves, causing loss of the revenue to SAR retailers and restaurateurs and profit taxes to the Government, is it reason for banning trips to the mainland?
Revenue issues should be addressed by the usual revenue protection means, such as regulation - not by criminalisation. This is precisely the Government's argument for legalising football betting in Hong Kong. So why criminalise overseas betting?
The Government's argument is that the present amendment is to plug the loopholes - a clarification of the existing law because the original legislative intent is to criminalise all forms of gambling except what is officially sanctioned.
At the time of its enactment, overseas and Internet gambling did not exist or were not common. The amendment is simply to update the law.
This is again a fallacy. Criminal offences are always narrowly defined, and conduct falling outside the definition of an offence is just not an offence. A plain reading of the existing Gambling Ordinance clearly does not extend to overseas gambling. The amendment is therefore an expansion of the scope of criminality. This needs strong justification.
Moreover, if the existing law is to be updated, it is not only the new technology of gambling which needs to be considered. Changing social attitudes towards gambling must be considered too.
This means there must be public consultation first. What the Government is doing is expanding criminality affecting not just bookmakers who do this as a trade or business, but also vast numbers of ordinary citizens at present placing their bets outside Hong Kong, quite legally.
The criminalisation of Internet gambling raises additional questions of enforcement. Legco asked how the Government intended to monitor the Internet and catch the offenders. Not surprisingly, the Government had no real answer.
When the amendment was first discussed in a Legco panel, the Government's position was that it was not targeted at the Internet. Moreover, the Government has assured the public that it will not start a general surveillance of Internet communication to catch potential offenders. Legco is being asked to pass a law the enforcement of which is unclear.
The hypocrisy of the Government with its moral stance against gambling is clearly exposed in its thinly disguised attempt to legalise football betting in Hong Kong. It has argued Hong Kong is spending a disproportionate amount of resources on fighting illegal football betting, so it is the lesser of two evils to legalise it and keep it under control. Any suggestion that this is a revenue measure is of course rejected.
It is inconsistent to criminalise overseas gambling and legalise football betting in Hong Kong. The only rational policy is to accept both as legal forms of entertainment and to set up a reasonable mechanism to collect betting duty. If it is feared excessive gambling might create a social problem, the concern should be addressed by means of a social policy.
The moral stance of protecting young minds from forming gambling habits is understandable but not tenable. There is no evidence that schoolchildren indulge in football betting in jurisdictions where it is not a criminal offence to do so. Neither is there evidence that decriminalising will turn football from a popular sport into another form of gambling.
Inveterate gamblers will be gamblers even if horse racing and mahjong are the only forms of gambling allowed by law. Looking at the behaviour of football addicts among my Legco colleagues, I doubt if decriminalising football betting will make gamblers of them all.
Margaret Ng Ngoi-yee is a legislator representing the legal profession.
I see the Jockey Club has a story in the SCMP about betting down about 10% due to the World Cup.
Horny Harry
05-06-2002, 21:39
Betting on the World Cup has likely slashed Jockey Club revenue by 10 per cent, the club's chief executive says.
Lawrence Wong Chi-kwong said that while the exact loss in turnover had yet to be calculated, the figure would not be less than 10 per cent.
"I suspect [that level] is possible, although the club won't be exactly certain about the impact until after the racing season ends in two weeks," Mr Wong said. "However, there's bound to be direct impact [on turnover]. We have been feeling the pressure."
During the past two weeks, the club has boosted the Triple Trio pool in an attempt to lure punters who might be tempted to bet illegally on the World Cup.
At the race meeting on Sunday, the Triple Trio pool will shoot up to $80 million after being topped up by the club from its reserve fund.
The Jockey Club's betting turnover was down $1.55 billion halfway through the season. In February club officials warned illegal betting on the World Cup would cut into second-half revenue.
Mr Wong yesterday also said that changes to the Mark Six draw announced this week - which worsened odds but increased prize money - was expected to boost revenue, but the club had yet to discuss with the Lotteries Board further new measures to increase the lottery's attractiveness.
From July 4, seven winning balls will be drawn from 49 instead of 47 in each game. Punters will also have a chance to win a new seventh prize of $20 if they pick three winning numbers.
Meanwhile, the club is also offering $700,000 worth of prizes to members of the public who vote for the most popular horse of the year.
The voting, by telephone or the Internet, will end on June 14.
At the race meeting on Sunday, the Triple Trio pool will shoot up to $80 million after being topped up by the club from its reserve fund.
HH where did that article come from. written by yet another intellectually challenged journalist methinks. as the JC did not "top up" the jackpot last saturday i will be surprised if they do so on sunday.
South China Morning Post Hobbes.
Reads like another poorly researched article. The jackpot is already $40 million and will probably escalate to $80 million at the very least - without any JC top-ups.
i cant understand why they didnt bump todays TT pool to 30m. the pools are generally bigger on the midweek meetings and with at least 2 * 30m now left sitting in the bank this is... :mad: :eek: :confused: :eek: :mad: ...well, as expected i suppose
[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: Scarper ]
June 13, 2002
Should Washington Ban Internet Gambling?
by Clyde Wayne Crews Jr.
Clyde Wayne Crews Jr. is director of technology studies at the Cato Institute.
Your after-tax income belongs to you. You're free to spend it, invest it, waste it, burn it, or tithe it, and none of that is the business of politicians. But if some legislators have their way, you won't be able to use your money to gamble on the Internet.
The House Judiciary Committee is set to approve a bill to ban online betting by such means as banning the acceptance of credit cards or other instruments to process gambling transactions.
In this post-September 11 era it's understandable that politicians would be concerned about shady financial goings-on on the Internet. Gambling operations can be a tool for money laundering. But passing such all-encompassing, all-monitoring legislation is the wrong approach.
In this privacy-sensitive era, the obvious question arises: Assuming you were gambling on the Internet, how would the government ever know about it? For the government to know about such personal, consensual behavior requires spying. And that's what anti-gambling legislation would require. Banks and Internet Service Providers would be drafted into the role of snooper, sifting all financial transactions. The notion of government mandating surveillance of private computers is repugnant.
And to impose federal surveillance on consumer financial transactions before consumers have even universally embraced Internet banking and commerce as such has serious implications for people's willingness to welcome online finance.
Not surprisingly, credit card companies don't want to be deputized as hall monitors in this crusade, responsible for assuring that companies for which it processes card services are not involved in gambling operations.
But the bottom line is that even if one were gambling, government has no right in principle to know about it, or to force disclosure of that information. Lawmakers need to be questioned intently on the privacy implications of this crusade.
Another rationale for gambling restrictions is to target, not the gamblers, but shady dealers who run phony, fraudulent operations. But consumers have the incentive to look for endorsements and seals of approval of the gambling operations with which they transact, and to avoid fly-by-night operators. Most people realize that gambling is a pastime in which the house usually wins. (Of course there are always risks. Even upstanding games of chance like those offered at McDonalds restaurants have had problems with manipulation by insiders.)
While gambling is a problem for some who have trouble controlling themselves, others enjoy the challenge or just think it's fun, and are able to contain their addictive impulses.
And legislation is notoriously slippery. What constitutes "gambling" is often in the eye of the beholder -- or legislator. Fantasy sports gets a limited exemption, as do horseracing and jai alai. Even investing can be a "gamble" in the sense that "the opportunity to win is predominantly subject to chance" -- as the legislation defines gambling. Yet the anti-gambling proposals exempt "any over-the-counter derivative instrument," though these clearly are not for the faint of heart.
Only some gambling is bad, apparently. One gets the impression that the real motive of anti-gambling legislation isn't protecting against crime or protecting vulnerable individuals against the unscrupulous, but the desire to legislate behavior and control others. But it's not the job of politicians to hector constituents about morality or finances.
Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) rightly opposed the idea of government regulation of consensual behavior: "It is all motivated by the fact that a good number of people think gambling is something people shouldn't do...I don't think we should set ourselves up as the national household budget manager."
Similarly, Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) summed up the matter well early on. "[T]he overriding freedom issue [with respect to gambling] is whether or not government should be involved in trying to improve personal behavior by an authoritarian approach by the use of law. This really falls into the category of legislating morality. I don't happen to like gambling, and I think it is rather dumb, to tell you the truth, but in a free society, people should have the right to do dumb things."
Government shouldn't turn vices into crimes -- even granting the notion that gambling is a vice, which is open to question. Perhaps pork barrel spending is a more serious vice, one to which Congress should direct its attention. Are gambling losses significant compared to pork barrel and other extravagant spending, to which citizens are forced to contribute?
Once we travel down the road of regulating behavior on the Internet, there's basically no limit to government's ability to regulate voluntary speech and interaction and to substitute its moral vision for those of individuals. Washington should mind the federal budget casino instead.
Polls 'won't determine soccer bet decision'
POLITICAL DESK
Prev. Story
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Public opinion polls were not the government's sole consideration when deciding whether to legalise soccer betting, a senior official said yesterday.
Speaking on an RTHK radio programme, Secretary for Home Affairs Patrick Ho Chi-ping pledged he would carefully balance the interests from all sides before arriving at a decision.
Dr Ho gave an assurance that opinion polls would only be one of the many considerations.
"We will make reference to overseas experience and listen to views from individual groups, and hope to get to know, in a more in-depth manner, about the cause of their concern," he said.
"We don't hope to do bad things out of good intentions. We hope there will not be a split in society."
His remarks came after a survey by the Chinese University earlier this month showed that support for legalised soccer gambling had risen 11 per cent over the past four months to 66.5 per cent.
On the prospect of having to face public criticism all the time, he said what mattered most was to be relaxed and face the criticism.
He said opinion polls which tracked the popularity ratings of senior officials were not the only benchmark of their performance.
"I will certainly be very happy if our work is recognised by the public," he said. "But if it [my work] is not or if I score low [in the popularity ratings], I have to consider what improvements I can make."
According to the survey findings released by the University of Hong Kong's Public Opinion Programme this month, Dr Ho, with a public recognition rate of 39.6 per cent, failed to reach the 50 point benchmark.
Tuesday, September 17, 2002 'Let bookies into soccer betting'
AMBROSE LEUNG
A lobbyist for an international bookmaking firm yesterday called on the government to open up the soccer-betting market if it decides to legalise it.
Murray Burton, a private consultant lobbying on behalf of bookmakers Victor Chandler, accused the government of ignoring bookmakers' views and being biased in favour of the anti-soccer betting lobby.
Victor Chandler closed its Hong Kong office in May after the government outlawed the placing of bets with offshore bookmakers.
Speaking at a Tsim Sha Tsui East Rotary Club luncheon, Mr Burton said international bookmakers should be given licences to take bets in Hong Kong if soccer betting was legalised.
"Having other offshore international operators involved would provide a competitive playing field," he said.
Currently, the Hong Kong Jockey Club is the only organisation that can receive bets on horse racing and it is tipped to run soccer betting if it is legalised.
Ronald Arculli, chairman of the Hong Kong Jockey Club, last week revealed the club is studying a system of soccer betting which could be introduced if it is legalised next year.
It is understood the club is considering a limited form of betting, where punters can only bet on a team winning, losing or drawing a match but not how many goals each team scores.
Mr Burton criticised the proposal as "too simple" and said it would not attract local gamblers.
He also said the lack of expertise in the club could lead to a loss of profit and, as a result, tax revenue.
A spokeswoman for the Home Affairs Bureau said the government was still listening to views on soccer betting from all sides.
Ronald Arculli, chairman of the Hong Kong Jockey Club, last week revealed the club is studying a system of soccer betting which could be introduced if it is legalised next year.
Why on earth does the JC think such a system will attract the soccer punters? The market has already spoken: people want Asian Handicap style of soccer betting. First rule of marketing: give the customers what they want! Only arrogant beaucrats will think they can force people to change their preferences.
people want Asian Handicap style of soccer betting
agree totally with that comment masun but think you are being a bit harsh as the quote is very nebulous anyway and also may be paraphrased by the journalist.
ps if they did try the european style 3 way betting the resulting fiasco would make the penny stock one look trivial in comparison.
Translated from Apple Daily:
HKJC will not have soccer betting monopoly
The HKJC's monopoly of the gambling industry for over 30 years will soon be changed. It's known that senior government officials are studying the possibility of conducting soccer gambling in a way similar to Mark Six lotteries. In other words, a body similar to the Hong Kong Lotteries Board will be set up to conduct the betting using HKJC's off course betting centres. At the same time, there's strong opinion that the government should issue three or more licences so that the government can increase its revenue share from three sources: licence fees, betting duty and profits tax.
The Home Affairs Dept. is now studying the issue of legalising soccer gambling. It is expected that the earliest soccer gambling can be legalised in Hong Kong will be the latter half of next year. Senior officials think that they need to give the Legco at least 6 to 9 months to study the relevant legal provisions so as to avoid being criticised for not respecting the Legco.
The government's initial expectation is that the Executive Council will decide whether soccer betting should be legalised towards the end of the year. Once the green light is given, the government will offer more concrete proposals to the public for consultation.
To gain the public's support, the government is studying ways to allocate a certain percentage of the soccer betting revenue to cure and assist chronic gamblers and related services.
When the government first put up the consultation paper for soccer betting in June last year, senior government officials were inclined towards giving the HKJC a monopoly. One year later, the situation has changed and the HKJC is no longer onto a sure thing. According to informed sources, at this stage, senior government officials have still not decided how soccer betting should be conducted. However, there is a consensus that the HKJC's monopoly should be broken. At least two options are now under consideration but the majority favours Option 1.
Under Option 1, the government will set up a body similar to the lotteries board to conduct soccer betting independently, but will use the HKJC's facilities and will entrust the HKJC with the task of managing of the betting activities. Supporters think this will increase the government's control in the hope that it will alleviate the citizens' over anxiety towards increased gambling activities.
Under Option 2, multiple licences will be issued to different operators. Senior government officials think such an approach can increase the government's revenue in three ways: fees from granting of the licences, duty levied on the bets, and profits tax when the operators make money. However, because this option changes the way the traditional way the government is involved in gambling activities, i.e. on a not for profit basis, the option is a controversial one and there are a lot of reservations with it.
When HKJC Chairman Ronald Arculli was interviewed by this paper last week, he said that if soccer betting was to be run along the lines of Mark Six, it meant that the government would be the bookmaker and so would have bear the risks. He said: "If the HKJC is only responsible for the management, we can't possibly risk our capital." He admitted that the HKJC would have less revenue but tax revenue would be the same.
agree totally with that comment masun but think you are being a bit harsh as the quote is very nebulous anyway and also may be paraphrased by the journalist.
Arculli was interviewd on Cable TV last week and I remember hearing him say something similar and so his comments quite possbily reflect current JC thinking.
He admitted that the HKJC would have less revenue but tax revenue would be the same.
hard to grasp the exact context but if/when soccer betting is introduced i think there is NO WAY gov't revenue from gambling will not fall.
It seems quite extraordinary that any "consensus" would be keen to break the HKJC monopoly given that it has the potential to cut into total Govt revenue. Without Jockey Club funds, HK would be an even nicer mess than it is now.
It seems quite extraordinary that any "consensus" would be keen to break the HKJC monopoly
I can only surmise that to some people in the government the JC has become a fiefdom beyond their control. In this regard, the recent re-election of Alan Li to the Board of Stewards and the employment of the his two sons have certainly not helped the JC's cause.
Surely the govt of HK would be better spending a bit more time on running the place than turning green over the JC fiefdom. In the greater scheme of things, handing out JC jobs to your sons is hardly a guaranteed path to a flaming inferno in the afterlife. Tongue Chee Hwa has presided over the erosion of civil liberty and running down of HK economy for 5 years and now on the road to another term as the least successful political leader the place ever had, but much loved by Beijing as it slowly pulls down HK.
Jockey club is the only choice to run soccer gambling
If the government pays heed to the loony notion that it should license three operators to run soccer gambling, it will virtually guarantee benefits to the hungry wolves of organised crime. The vast mountain of cash will be irresistible.
But why is this option even being contemplated? In Hong Kong, we have probably the most honest, open, skilled and practised gaming organisation on the planet. Since off-course betting was legalised in 1973, it has been run exclusively by the Hong Kong Jockey Club. There has never been any suggestion of underhand dealing, skimming of cash or corruption.
Under the existing system of legalised gambling, the broad public benefits. Last year, club donations to 147 charities totalled more than $1 billion. And the club paid $10.5 billion in betting taxes.
If the off-course system was extended to handle betting on soccer, the flow of cash would be like the Yangtze in flood. As things now stand, government dithering means the millions of dollars wagered on local and global football go untaxed, the money flowing into the pockets of illegal bookmakers.
During the World Cup, police arrested 120 bookmakers and seized $73 million worth of bets - probably less than five per cent of the bets laid.
This agonising indecision should be ended. The government needs to make an announcement that betting on football will be made legal, and the sole agency to handle that gambling will be the jockey club.
But the administration seems paralysed by fear of criticism from a minority who moan that legalised gambling will lead to community depravity. This delusion ignores the facts; any teenager on a Shamshuipo street corner knows where to place an illegal bet.
It would be financially crazy to license any other body to handle soccer betting. The jockey club has the staff, dedicated computer systems, the extensive chain of off-course betting centres and the experience. Any competitor would face enormous establishment charges that would inevitably cut the amount of taxes paid.
If the government acted, the club could handle soccer betting, literally, within 24 hours.
More important is the jockey club's hard-earned reputation for running an incorruptible system.
For my money, the government should not stop at legalising bets on football. Jockey club turnover is dwindling, largely because of Internet betting. I would like to see the club fighting back against the international gambling barons by accepting electronic bets on local horse racing. This would guarantee income from overseas Chinese communities, not to mention from China.
Internet gaming barons and our cousins in Macau both make rich pickings from Hong Kong gamblers. Not a cent of that goes into Hong Kong government coffers. It is a matter of fiscal survival for us to plug that gap.
The idea that licensing commercial bodies, including foreign bookmakers, to run soccer betting in Hong Kong should be buried. At best, it will mean costly duplication, leading to less money for government and charity. At worst, it will throw open the door to gangsters.
What is the latest government policy on legalised soccer betting? Who can tell? Official reasoning is opaque. Last May, the then secretary for home affairs, Lam Woon-kwong, said gambling was not a commercial or economic activity that should be encouraged. Well, I have news for Mr Lam. With or without encouragement by officialdom, people are going to bet on football. If the government does not get in on the game, Hong Kong will be a sure loser.
Jockey Club in line to control soccer betting
In an attempt to address concerns about regulation, Exco is tipped to grant exclusive rights to the non-profit making body
CHRIS YEUNG
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Legal soccer betting run by the Hong Kong Jockey Club could be launched in the second half of next year if a set of proposals is endorsed by the Executive Council tomorrow.
According to an informed source, the government is inclined to offer sole franchise rights to the non-profit making body as part of its overall strategy to legalise soccer betting in the SAR without excessively commercialising the activity.
Restrictions on soccer betting will be imposed aimed at countering criticism that legalising it will encourage gambling, particularly among young people.
They include a ban on soccer betting for people under the age of 18. Publicity of soccer betting will be strictly regulated in a manner similar to the present restrictions on tobacco advertisements. Also, warnings about the adverse effect of gambling will be publicised at betting outlets.
Promotion of soccer betting will not be allowed in television commercials and odds for fixtures will not be broadcast during coverage of soccer matches.
Only cash bets on soccer matches will be allowed to avoid credit card debt problems.
"Some people may say our proposal is neither here nor there," the source said. "But we will ensure it is interesting and competitive enough so that money will not go to illegal betting."
Referring to the likely revenue that would come from soccer betting, he said: "Nobody knows the exact amount of illegal soccer betting turnover at the moment. As far as revenue is concerned, it will be within the range of $1 billion to $10 billion."
The source added that the government had held initial discussions with the Jockey Club, which he said had expressed keen interest in running soccer betting.
"The government wants to have soccer betting run by a non-profit taking organisation. If you give it to a commercial firm, they will certainly do it in a very different way," he said.
"Legal soccer betting will certainly adversely affect racing betting. If the Jockey Club is given the right to run it, they will be able to strike a fine balance on how to run both at the same time."
The source said the government hopes to table an amendment to the Gambling Ordinance early next year for it to be enacted by July.
Secretary for Home Affairs Patrick Ho Chi-ping acknowledged the issue was controversial and pledged to come up with a balanced proposal in the interests all parties.
A gambling affairs commission, which is composed of public members, will be appointed by Chief Executive Tung Chee-hwa to handle licensing issues, public complaints and guidelines for soccer betting. Funds will be allocated to help problem gamblers.
The government, said the source, had recently stepped up consultation among political parties and community groups. He said opposition from anti-soccer betting groups remained strong.
"The new team has agreed on the need to regulate the activities," the source said. "If the chief executive didn't agree to it, do you think the bureau would take it further and put it to Exco?"
[ November 25, 2002, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: jb ]
As usual, the Apple Daily completely wrong. What a rag. Does it ever get anything right apart from the date?:D :D :D
Wednesday, November 27, 2002 -- Jockey Club wins soccer betting rights
In a last-ditch effort to combat illegal gambling, Exco approves a five-year licence
JIMMY CHEUNG
Hong Kong people will be able to gamble legally on soccer matches starting next summer after a historic government decision yesterday to grant an exclusive footballing franchise to the Jockey Club
.
The controversial move - a last-ditch bid to combat rampant illegal bookmaking - means Hong Kong will join Macau in a soccer betting beach-head next to the mainland, where such gambling remains strictly limited.
Local critics warned that the move would induce more people to bet and questioned if the additional tax benefits would outweigh resulting social problems.
Announcing the decision yesterday, Secretary for Home Affairs Patrick Ho Chi-ping stressed soccer gambling was already prevalent in the illegal market.
He said authorisation was the way to tackle the problem.
"The government can't sit back and do nothing. Certainly education and a more vigorous clampdown are possible. But regulation is the last resort," he said.
The package approved by the Executive Council yesterday includes:
A single five-year licence for the Hong Kong Jockey Club;
A new Gaming Commission to oversee soccer betting and the Mark Six lottery;
A fund to help problem gamblers and for public education;
Betting only on matches without local teams;
Restricted publicity and under-age betting prohibited;
Fixed-odds with no credit card betting.
The government first floated the need to legalise soccer betting in 2000 amid growing concerns over illegal gambling and soaring budget deficits. Officials said subsequent public consultation and opinion surveys confirmed that there was majority support for lifting the ban. With the annual turnover estimated to reach $30 billion, Dr Ho said the treasury would reap more than $1 billion each year.
The Great Coalition to Oppose Legalisation of Soccer Betting warned that legalisation would encourage more people to gamble.
The Democratic Party echoed the concerns, saying the social problems would outstrip the tax benefit.
Dr Ho said more people might bet after the relaxation, but dismissed claims they would necessarily become addicted. "If we do nothing, gambling will become more rampant and the social cost will be even greater."
To ensure competitiveness, the Jockey Club will be allowed to operate a full range of bets. "Whatever is offered by illegal bookmakers should also be available [through the Jockey Club]," Dr Ho said.
Jockey Club chairman Ronald Arculli pledged to run soccer betting responsibly. "The Jockey Club's non-profit-making nature will ensure all profits generated will benefit Hong Kong," he said.
Officials said the public might be able to place soccer bets as early as next summer.
Dr Ho said he believed lawmakers would support the move after details were made available.
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Everyone has talked about the downside, which is the turnover drop, but is there any upside? Like a betting tax cut?
alan atkins article on page 2 scmp just about sums up my vision of future. that the racing turnover suffers and that the tax revenue raised by the soccer wont be enough to covr the racing losses. And that the JC will be hard pushed to matchg the illegals + betfairs prices and range of bets. all in all i think a bad move, especially for us racing fans! A beting tax reduction is the only up side, which i beleive will become even more necessary with the introduction of soccer betting and the lower takes. A tax system similar to japanese racing may work, where the lower the dividend the lower the tax, thus making betting on favorites no less attractive than betting on a soccer matches in term of tax loss.
hadn't got to page 2. good article by AA as i am convinced overall revenue to JC and gov't will fall with the introduction of soccer betting.
Wednesday, November 27, 2002 -- SOCCER BETTING
An each-way strategy makes it hard to predict the true winner
THE GAMBLE by ALAN AITKEN
The irony of the Hong Kong Jockey Club being named as the operator for legal soccer betting is that the main sufferer is likely to be its own foundation of gambling on horse racing.
The announcement was highly predictable, given that the club has an efficient, well-respected and trusted infrastructure already in place for race betting.
The club operates as a so-called non-profit organisation, though in reality it operates for profit and its dividends go to a different set of shareholders - the government and charities.
Had another operator been decided upon, the Jockey Club would have been a major loser and that would have had negative implications for a community in which it is the biggest taxpayer and the largest source of charity revenues.
But just what sort of a winner the Jockey Club or Hong Kong will be from this remains to be seen.
Punters who might otherwise be at Happy Valley or Sha Tin or playing by Telebet, may be just as comfortable sitting down to Arsenal and Manchester United on the television and having an interest in that instead.
No one knows the figure for certain, but some Hong Kong race betting professionals believe racing turnover will drop by as much as 20-25 per cent - or $16-$20 billion on last season's turnover figure - when legal soccer gambling begins.
That will be on top of the racing turnover drop currently running at more than 10 per cent in the current season and around 35 per cent since 1997.
In the event of a drop of 20 per cent in race betting, the government revenue generated from soccer will need to be more than $3 billion to maintain its returns from gambling, let alone increase them.
That figure is quite possible, but the details of the betting model used will have a great deal to do with whether the Jockey Club operation catches much of the illegal or offshore soccer betting, or whether its simple forms of soccer betting fail to compete with the myriad options available from illegal and offshore bookmakers.
If it fails to compete with the incentives of established bookmakers like Ladbrokes, William Hill or even the illegal operator on the corner, then the legalisation of soccer betting may be a net negative result to the community even before taking account of addicted gamblers.
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Yes the article needed to be written. and now we need AA and everyone else who can be heard to publicise the dramatic need for a betting tax overhaul. Betfair is looking more and more attractive.
The type of problems faced by the JC & government is not new in the business world. It's not so different from the dilemma IBM had to cope with when the PC challgened IBM's mainframe monopoly. How should a monopolist react to such a competitive threat? Most business strategists will advocate that the monopolist should embrace the change rather than hiding its head in the sand.
There's no doubt the monopolist's original business (horseracing in JC's case) will suffer, but this is the least worst option. The lesson from the business world is that if you don't participate in the creative destruction process yourself, others will do it for you. A good example is Wang which dominated word-processing machines, failed to respond to the challenges posed by the upstart WordPerfect and eventually destroyed.
It's a good thing the JC has recongnised and then embraced the changes. It's now up to the JC to create a new barrier of entry to make sure that its new business will prosper, and better still, create some sort of synergies between its two businesses. For example, it can create bets which involve both a soccer match and a horse race. This type of products are more difficult for other operators to match.
very good points masun -- as always. despite my feelings the effect will be to reduce revenue it could well be you are right and the long run alternative could be even worse.
Must say I agree with Masun, too.
The legal soccer betting was coming no matter what and, in the hands of a rival operator, would have set out to wreck the JC turnover. It will be wrecked to some extent anyway but the JC won't have that as its primary business plan! Also, it does now give the JC some leverage with govt regarding the taxation takeout issue. Once again, a rival operator of soccer betting would have lobbied the govt to leave racing taxation the way it is to allow the new soccer betting to survive in its infant stage, whilst the JC will not have that agenda.
Friday, December 6, 2002 -- TIM HAMLETT -- It's not the Jockey Club's business
Gambling is a social evil. For some individuals it is a source of considerable misery. The easier it is to gamble the more likely it becomes that vulnerable people will encounter it.
I suppose there is nothing morally wrong, in principle, with the idea that you might exchange $10 for a one-in-10 chance of getting $100. Still, the idea has a whiff of depravity about it, possibly because it depends on placing an excessive value on money.
I sympathise with the people who would like to keep football gambling illegal. No doubt they would, if given the chance, also wish to ban gambling on horse racing and mahjong. This is a respectable point of view, but it is not very practical. The choice before us is not whether there should be gambling, but how there should be gambling. Prohibition is morally impeccable but practically hopeless. The prohibitionists are making so much noise flogging their dead horse that you can hardly hear the small voices asking a sensible question: OK, let us legalise soccer gambling, but why the Jockey Club?
The Jockey Club, let us note, is not a charitable organisation. It has a very large income and gives a small portion of it to charity, which is not the same thing at all. The same claim could be made for the Mafia.
The Jockey Club's donations are carefully discussed with the government first. The club has a well-known preference for large concrete structures on which it can put its name. It wants projects with impact. This is because the purpose of the club's donations is not to alleviate suffering. It is to distract us all from the fact that, after all, the club's main activity is running a large and lucrative chain of grubby betting shops. If this were widely spoken of, it would prevent the club from achieving its real purpose.
The Jockey Club is a private members' club. There is no right to membership and there is no qualification required, though it helps to be rich. To join, you simply have to be selected by the existing members. The club pursues the objectives which those members share.
Of course it is a non-profit organisation, because people do not join the Jockey Club to make profits; they join it to increase their prestige.
These are harmless objectives in themselves, but hardly so desirable as to qualify for public support on the grand scale provided in Hong Kong. The huge swathes of valuable real estate devoted to club purposes are a monument to colonial administrators' willingness to allocate large stretches of the territory to expat hobbies.
Having a private club of horse enthusiasts run horse racing makes sense. Why should anyone else be involved? Having the same private club running horse betting is less obvious, but no doubt offers some useful synergies.
To have this club then go on to run football betting makes no sense at all. Indeed, to say that only one organisation may run football betting looks curiously socialistic. Why should we not have competing purveyors?
No doubt the Jockey Club has some relevant expertise, but there are plenty of people out there who have run football betting enterprises.
The government's proposals look suspiciously like an attempt to preserve the Jockey Club (the government and the club overlap considerably, by coincidence) from the consequences of the long-term decline in the public's desire to bet on horses.
Tim Hamlett (hamlett@hkbu.edu.hk) is an associate professor of journalism at Hong Kong Baptist University
To have this club then go on to run football betting makes no sense at all. Indeed, to say that only one organisation may run football betting looks curiously socialistic. Why should we not have competing purveyors?
In an ideal world, I'd agree football betting should be run by another organisation other than the JC. However, the government has a tight balancing act. There's still a very strong anti-football betting force here. The sight of numerous new betting sports opening one after another will no doubt spur them into strong reactions. I am not saying the government made the right decision. It's just that if I were the one who had to make the decision, I'd find it to be a difficult judgment call too.
I suppose there is nothing morally wrong, in principle, with the idea that you might exchange $10 for a one-in-10 chance of getting $100. Still, the idea has a whiff of depravity about it, possibly because it depends on placing an excessive value on money.
DAMN HIPPIES
:rolleyes:
Tim is an idiot, clearly evincing some of the confusion, hand-wringing moral paralysis and inconsistency which characterised his more famous homonymic.
He finds it whiffy that money is valued too highly, yet he would like to see some good ol' scrappin' for that money in the form of business competition.
He has a poor opinion of the more popular forms of gambling but is not willing to keep up his fight against them, because he is just too lazy. Can't be bothered. Too hard.
And he wants to express his abhorrence of expat clubs and hobbies, but quite happy to dole out to a minor university in the colonies whatever his own foolish concepts of journalism might be - on the public teat, naturally.
Typical of elbow-patched, closetted academics throughout history, he avoids the real world in which he cannot compete, the better to point out its many errors. Gambling causes people distress - Life causes people distress, gambling is merely a large part of life. And anyone who believes otherwise, should simply look at the names on the biggest, best-located buildings in any city in the world - insurance companies, the biggest bookies of them all.:confused:
just noticed this bet type on betfair.....can anyone think of another soccer bet that would attract loads of real mug money like this one?
Total Matched So Far: £0
04 Jan 12:30 (GMT). What will be the aggregate number of the Goal-scorers shirts numbers for all the goal-scorers in this match? The market will be suspended at the start of the game and all un-matched bets cancelled. For example if Sunderland were to play Newcastle and win 2-1 with Kevin Phillips (shirt number 10) and Niall Quinn (shirt number 9) scoring for the Black Cats and Alan Shearer (shirt number 9) scoring for the Magpies the final make-up would be (10 + 9 + 9) = 28.
Must say Hobbes - like that new avatar.
fedora -- thank you. also to dom who used photoshop to provide it.
cheesebeast
15-01-2003, 14:44
Exchanges - a model the Club could examine
ALAN AITKEN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whatever anyone's view on the effects of betting exchanges, or even on the distorted turnover figures generated by them, there is no greater proof that they are working and prosperous than the wracked cries of the British bookies.
The bookies there had it too good for too long - their pain will bring tears to no eyes but their own - and have come to regard every dollar spent gambling as rightfully theirs. In the process, they did to racing in the United Kingdom what many, those very bookies included, want to say that betting exchanges now threaten to do.
The bleating and finger-pointing coming from the majors and private on-course bookies' groups alike does indicate that Betfair and others like it are making some serious changes to the way betting is undertaken in that part of the world.
Many people lost money in the stock market bubble on Internet companies, but that doesn't change the fact the Internet is, at some uncertain date, going to overrun world commerce, including the world of gambling. The only response of governments is the glacial process of judiciary, legislation and prohibition - to the man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail - but the Net runs far too swiftly for that.
Person-to-person copying of music and video files has exploded even with the high-profile demise of Napster.
Before it was bookies on-line that worried racing people. Now it is the betting exchange, the latest step in that process. Perhaps by 2005 it will be something newer again, but the emergence of the exchanges as a powerful force should not simply be greeted with horror by the Hong Kong Jockey Club.
For a start, betting exchanges have limitations in the variety they can offer on racing (although they periodically offer betting in the run and that is beyond the Jockey Club's compass). Quinella betting is very feasible but may be a way off, tierce is far less likely, and there will be human clone colonies on Saturn before Triple Trios are under threat.
The Club should be examining exchanges, though, from the simple but time-honoured business standpoint of giving the customer what he or she wants. And since a betting exchange takes no risk, yet is competitive with bookies operating legally in the UK on sports, you have to wonder whether the concept should be under consideration as the model for Jockey Club soccer betting.
If you believe what you hear, the details of soccer betting are causing some serious headaches on matters of funds-splitting and the model for the business, but whatever the model, it must have a low take-out from the turnover or it simply is not going to compete.
Even operating as a traditional bookmaker - wherein the takeout is not actually removed from the pool, as in totalisator betting, but is concealed in the odds and expected to be effective over a period of business rather than in every case - the Jockey Club will have a theoretical takeout rate.
But by running a soccer betting exchange operation, it would guarantee against losing and probably with a similar profit level. There is no reason why a betting exchange must be conducted on the Internet and could easily be run through betting shops.
Internet exchanges are virtually a British invention and the UK firms dominate overwhelmingly, but there are worldwide concerns. There are new exchanges in planning and even advanced marketing stages in Britain, and fledgling projects under way elsewhere.
The Washington Post last week ran a story about the nightly operations of Betfair on North American racing, where takeouts are enormous, and remarked on the superior win bet returns and flexibility. The TwoFlys exchange in Australia has yet to make any impact, but does exist.
Australia's legal bookies believe their own margins on higher grades of racing are very low already and exchanges cannot outprice them, but the opportunity is there for exchanges to gain a foothold in racing another rung down where it is mostly only tote betting with a 14 per cent takeout.
There may be other places where this change is in process - the Caribbean, where Internet betting companies have found a friendly home, or islands of the Pacific like Fiji or Vanuatu, where maverick operations have prospered in the past.
Once the potential operators accept the knotty issue of smaller, though riskless returns - and they will have to address it at some point, either from within or when the enemy arrives at the gates - there is no reason why any number of bookies in such havens might not turn into exchanges.
British authorities already check exchanges during investigations into suspect runs or races, so they have accepted the new presence as legitimate. And Betfair has been at pains to work with the Jockey Club in England on matters of transparency and ensuring the money trail's effectiveness in combating corruption.
From a business point of view, Betfair would make very little from corrupt dealings conducted through it but would be seen in an adverse light if they were uncovered. This for some racing people is one of the major concerns, perhaps as great as the immediate threat to turnover.
An insider laying a horse to lose is hardly news - it has been going on since two men first had a bet - but the first-hand facility to make money from a horse losing has never been so accessible.
Working through a bookmaker of any kind immediately involves another party who wants his chop and another lip to let the story slip, but through a betting exchange it can be a quiet, solo operation.
A British trainer was this week fined £2,000 under a non-trier rule. The trainer plans to appeal and may be found totally innocent, but the level of the fine is more interesting.
Assuming that the penalty is not connected with the odds, a different case might involve an odds-on favourite, whereupon it could become a reasonable proposition for an insider to win £4,000 laying the horse anonymously through an exchange, knowing the fine might only be half of it even if caught.
When Betfair matches £100,000 of bets on Sha Tin or Happy Valley, there is no reason to think any such thing could occur here. The potential to gain from winning in Hong Kong, or to lose from discovery of misdealing, is in another galaxy. Still, where that turnover is headed, nobody knows.
cheesebeast
15-01-2003, 14:55
Good article but hard to see the Jockey Club embracing such a radical concept.
As a matter of interest, there is some chance Twoflys is dead as their webpage now brings up a blank page.
A very rough translation of an article which appears on the front page in today's Apple Daily:
According to informed sources, soccer betting will begin in July or August to coincide with the new racing season in September. The JC is studying ways to have all up pools involving both soccer and horse racing. The JC realises that once soccer betting is started, it's inevitable that the racing pools will shrink. It's hoped by having combo bets involving both soccer and racing, interests in both forms of betting will be increased.
What's intriguing about the combo bets is that the racing schedule usually meshes quite well with European soccer schedules. For example, it's Saturday afternoon and you can watch the four-legged animals race; then at night you can continue to watch the two-legged animals chase a ball. It will truly be "from noon to dawn" non-stop entertainment!
Details of the all up bets are still being worked out, esp. the risks involved. The advantage of a "horse-on-soccer" (i.e. 1st leg a horse race, 2nd leg a soccer match) combo is that it will attract punters who want to win big with a small outlay. The downside is that the JC has to bear considerable risks. In case of a "soccer-on-horse" combo, the JC would not have to bear any risk since the horse racing pool is pari-mutuel. OTOH, racing-only punters may have to get used to seeing plunges in the racing pools caused by soccer matches.
Besides the combo bets, the JC is also studying the feasibility of soccer lotteries. The no. of matches involved in a lottery will be between 6 to 8, much less than 13 which is the case in China.
I've previously mentioned that to compete with the illegals and overseas bookies, the JC should exploit its synergy in both racing and soccer betting. So it's good to see that the JC is indeed thinking along similar line. OTOH, since I don't care much about soccer betting, I'm not sure if it's good news for me.
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 -- ON THE RAILS
The model used for this new system should be drawn up by people close to the industry -- ALAN AITKEN
__
The football betting model has yet to be revealed by the Jockey Club and all we have to work with at this stage is rumour, but there are some stories of the hair-curling variety.
For instance, the odds-setting promises to be a flawed area of operation. As this column understands, the club had recommended to it many professional soccer punters and analysts as potential advisers but rejected them on the basis of their background. Of course, why would anyone want to hire people with a thorough knowledge of actual betting on soccer?
It has, we believe, preferred to send its headhunters in search of stock market analysts and bond traders. We acknowledge that the stock market is nothing but gambling in another form - a more sinister and disreputable form if anything is to be gauged by the world's regular collapses of major firms - so these kinds of people are also trained in gambling.
However, their application of this training to a sport is still to be tested - something that will doubtless take place when they face off with the astute gamblers in the future.
From what we understand from our sources, it is the aesthetic view which has driven the club to look for these types of white-collar employees rather than people of a more colourful, application-specific background.
We hear there are internal estimates at the club which have calculated the total betting turnover will increase in Hong Kong with the addition of soccer betting. Ho hum, no surprises there.
What we would like to hear about is an estimate on the bottom-line impacts. Increasing turnover does not mean increasing government revenue when soccer betting margins will be slim by comparison with horseracing. It is most likely to be a negative for government revenue, thus neutering any Jockey Club efforts towards a tax restructure for race betting as that finds itself under more pressure.
The turnover numbers will need to be several times the annual turnover on horseracing to offset the potential cannibal effect of Jockey Club soccer betting on Jockey Club race betting. People have only so much money to bet and the bean counters who believe there will be a full transfer of illegal soccer betting to legal avenues will find themselves greatly mistaken.
Monday, May 12, 2003 -- Police arrest 16 people in swoop on soccer bookmaking -- AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Police have arrested 16 people, believed to be members of an organised crime syndicate, in a swoop on illegal soccer bookmakers, a police spokesman said on Monday.
After a three-month probe, police officers raided 21 addresses territory-wide, arresting 11 men and five women aged 30 to 40, overnight on Sunday.
They seized slips recording bets placed on Sunday's Manchester United-Everton match in England worth $7.2 million, he said.
Police also seized some $100,000 in cash and nine computers.
Gambling on any sport other than horse racing is illegal in the territory. Last May, Hong Kong passed a law tightening already-strict gambling laws, amid fears that offshore betting was eroding Hong Kong Jockey Club revenues and taxes accrued from them.
The club enjoys a near monopoly on Hong Kong gambling. It claims illegal and Internet gambling costs Hong Kong about $1 billion a year in lost taxes.
Under Hong Kong law, anyone who places a bet with an overseas bookmaker risks a fine of $10,000 and three months' jail.
Tuesday, May 13, 2003 == Raids break soccer betting syndicate
Police arrest 16 triad suspects after $9m is wagered on the last day of the English Premier League season = CLIFFORD LO, Senior Crime Reporter
A suspect is taken away by police yesterday. About 120 detectives took part in raids on 21 locations in the illegal betting crackdown.
Police have smashed a major soccer gambling syndicate which took at least $9 million in illegal bets from Hong Kong fans wagering on the last day of the English Premier League season.
Officers arrested 16 people from the bookmaking syndicate and seized about $100,000 in cash and betting slips with a face value of $9 million in the operation that ended early yesterday.
Most of the money had been staked on Sunday night's matches, broadcast live on Cable TV, which included the relegation battle involving West Ham and Birmingham City and the showdown for a Champions League place between Chelsea and Liverpool.
Nine computers allegedly used to store details of the bets were also seized. Yesterday, computer experts from the Commercial Crime Bureau were checking the seized computers to see how many punters had placed bets on soccer through the syndicate and how many betting orders had been collected.
The raids, involving about 120 detectives from the Organised Crime and Triad Bureau and the Hong Kong Island regional crime unit, began about 15 minutes before the English Premier League matches kicked off on Sunday.
Senior Superintendent Lo Mung-hung, of the Organised Crime and Triad Bureau, said bookmakers were found taking bets in 10 of the 21 locations raided.
He said the betting centre locations included a mahjong parlour in Mongkok, a luxury apartment in Mid-Levels, a public housing unit and a village house.
Some of those in the betting centres threw betting slips out of windows as officers broke into premises, Mr Lo said. The slips were retrieved.
Officers said the syndicate was believed to be controlled by the Wo Hop To triad society and the 16 suspects, including five women, were also alleged members of the gang.
"Preliminary investigations showed that the syndicate had been operating for several years and its clients were local punters. It is one of the biggest soccer bookmaking syndicates as it had 10 betting centres on Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and in the New Territories," Mr Lo said.
"We believe the suspected bookmakers collected bets through mobile phones.
"Like other illegal bookmaking syndicates, discounts were offered in an attempt to attract its clients. Punters were not required to pay deposits and they could bet on credit."
Last night, officers were still looking for the mastermind of the syndicate, whom they said was one of the office-bearers of the triad society.
It is understood the man was not in Hong Kong during the raids.
"We believe we have dealt a heavy blow to the gang and forced it to cease its operation. We are determined to combat any illegal bookmaking activities," Mr Lo said.
Last night, the 16 suspects, aged between 30 and 40, were being held for questioning.
A police spokesman said the crackdown was part of the effort to combat organised and serious crimes. "We will continue to spare no efforts in eliminating triad-related and soccer-bookmaking activities," he said.
The government is expected to legalise soccer gambling through the Jockey Club this summer, partly to tackle illegal betting.
VALENTINO
13-05-2003, 11:03
My advice to punters, better to bet at book makers or better still betting exchange than to be subjected to all this worries
The jockey club held a job fair at the Convention Centre yesterday for 3,600 posts -- of which about 600 are permanent post -- for its soccer betting division. Around 40,000 queued all the way from Wanchai to Central for the chance to be interviewed. It was quite a sight.
I am surprised that the JC need so many people. Anyone with any idea on how many people there are at Betfair altogether? Seems like there'll be lots of overheads at JC. Must make one wonder how competitve their payouts will be against overseas bookies and betting exchanges.
backnlay
18-05-2003, 21:57
After a good day at the races, it is over to Spain (http://www.backnlay.cjb.net)
;)
Monday, July 21, 2003 -- KELVIN WONG -- Updated at 6.42pm:
Jockey Club chairman Ronald Arculli on Monday urged the public to be patient about the Government's battle against illegal soccer gambling - as the organisation unveiled the details of its inaugural soccer betting services.
Beginning from August 1, Hong Kong football fans will be allowed to bet on matches in the English Premier League, the Italian Serie A, the German Bundesliga, and the Spanish La Liga.
"We have said before that this [the fight against illegal bookmakers] would be a very daunting task," said Mr Arculli. "But there are several things the Jockey Club can offer which give me confidence of our chances. The first one is our integrity in running similar kinds of operations."
"We also have the facilities to provide convenience for the public, including on-line services, Telebet, service counters, and self-vending machines. Hopefully, these will put us in a competitive position [against illegal bookmakers]."
"But at the same time, we must understand this will be a long and tough battle."
Mr Arculli said the Jockey Club, a non-profit organisation, estimated soccer betting would bring in about $30 billion in annual revenue, with half of this going to the Government as tax.
As announced by the Government previously, the organisation would be barred from taking bets on matches involving local teams or players to avoid match-fixing.
what f...... details. of paramount interest would be the % spread or inherent tax.
Good to see the HK Government getting their fair share :p
Be interested to see just what the govt actually does get - $15 billion? Sounds rather high to me...
Just another example of a journalist who knows nothing about gambling writing stories about gambling...always get it totally wrong
cheesebeast
22-07-2003, 14:17
Punters days away from big kick-off
Michael Ng
Hong Kong gamblers will have the opportunity to legally bet on football matches for the first time when the German Bundesliga kicks off on August 1, the Hong Kong Jockey Club has announced.
Henry Chan, the club's betting service director, said the opening match which sees champions Bayern Munich host Eintracht Frankfurt will be the first match for which the club will offer pools for local punters.
The club will offer four types of bets, Home win/Away win/Draw, All-up Home/Away/Draw up to three legs, correct score and total goals.
After investing over HK$100 million to upgrade its computer system and other supplementary facilities for football betting services, Chan also announced that the club will launch betting pools on four major European leagues, the English Premier League, Italian Serie A, Spanish Primera Liga and the German Bundesliga.
``We will first launch pools on these leagues as they are now the most popular ones among illegal bookmakers,'' Chan said.
Other cup tournaments, for example, European Champions League, European Championship and World Cup will also be included.
``But we wouldn't offer betting services on any international friendlies,'' Chan added.
He said the club has limited the maximum investment per bet to HK$20,000, and maximum dividends per bet to HK$500,000.
Each telebet account could only invest as much as HK$200,000 per day, while its maximum dividend would not exceed HK$1 million per day.
Chan said the minimum investment per bet for all electronic betting services, including mobile and online betting services, customer input terminals and self-vending terminals at off-course betting branches, will be HK$10. The minimum limit for telephone betting services and service counters at off-course betting centres will be HK$50.
``Dividends will be based on the odds when the punters' placed their bets,'' he said.
``All odds will be on a floating basis, in regard to the bets made on the pool.''
Chan noted that in co-ordinating its football betting services, hours of all electronic and telephone betting services will be extended to 3am during match days.
A majority of off-course betting branches, where real-time odds will be shown, will also be opened until 11.30pm.
But all pools will be closed 10 minutes prior to the start of the match.
Seabiscuit
23-07-2003, 11:39
I just went to HKJC website. They had a sample ticket which had Mancester United at odds of 2.12. It then said if you had $100 on Manchester United you get $225 back. How does this work? Are they using some weird and wonderful new way of expressing the odds? Normally you would get $212 back if odds are 2.12.
http://www.hkjcfootball.com/sb/english/odds/odds_had.asp
Biscuit you olde foole...everyone knows that 2.12 pays 2.25. And if the away team wins at 3.75 you get 5.20...should be obvious, you're just losing it. The HKJC wouldn't make a mistake!
Nice start from them anyway, an obvious error in the lead up :(
If that's an example of the prices they will offer, don't think the illegals will be too concerned!
cheesebeast
01-08-2003, 01:21
Here is link for new HKJC football betting website
http://www.hkjcfootball.com/sb/english/index.asp
So if I buy a ticket for each possible outcome in the first ever legal football betting match in HK history, will I be able to sell it on E-Bay for a zillion dollars in 20 years time?
HKJC - Bayern Munich vs Frankfurt 02:30 1.25 4.60 9.50
this is a 112% market.
HILLS is 1.25 4.50 10
Betfair 1.26 6.80 13.5 (101% market)
i cant see any asian handicap markets - why not!!!
cheesebeast
01-08-2003, 09:58
Seem to recall reading somewhere that they aren't introducing asian handicap betting from day 1 - were going to wait and let their systems get settled in before offering Asian handicap markets.
This is a comparison of the odds I read on the paper today:
HKJC: 1.25 4.6 9.5
Macau: 1.25 4.8 10
Hills: 1.25 4.5 10
It's also reported that over 8,300 new HKJC betting accounts were opened in just one week. It'll be interesting to see how much money will be placed on the match.
Hong Kong has been hit by soccer craze lately. Tickets to the Liverpool vs HK match were sold out in no time at all. And for the forthcoming Real Madrid match, in spite of the high prices, people still queued for four days to get the tickets. It seems that all the attention has been shifted to soccer now. I wonder if horse racing will still matter in HK in 10 years' time.
Seabiscuit
01-08-2003, 14:13
Interesting Masun.
Does this European soccer go round the clock (ie everyday) or just on weekends mainly?
In any case I would think that people should still have time to bet on both horses and soccer. Surely it is not difficult to keep up with the horses when only 2 meetings a week for 9 months. But I suppose horseracing has had a monopoly so people were forced to do it. I looked up Betfair for the odds in this first game and got
1.24 6.60 12.80 after commission is taken out at maximum rate of 5%. So Favourite similar odds but two other options much better on Betfair.
It seems the HKJC soccer odds are your typical monopolistic prices like TAB or conservative bookie. They have no plans to compete with Betfair's prices.
No, Seabuiscuit, European soccer matches are not on weekends only. There are also mid-week matches. At the moment, HKJC accept betting on the four major European leagues: English, Italian, Spanish and German. So there are quite a lot of matches to bet on.
There's no way the HKJC can compete with Betfair prices. In their recent recruitment drive, they hired over 3,000 people just to handle the soccer betting. So that's a lot of overheads to cover. Last time I read, there are only a few hundred people on Betfair's payroll.
Willhill takes 17% right? 1.83 is the evens bet there I think.
The HKJC says they are taking 5% of turnover.
Why are their prices nearly identical to willhill?
The evens bet should be 1.95, someone please shed some light on this.
cheesebeast
02-08-2003, 17:45
From SCMP
Gangs use official betting slips
The launch of legal soccer betting is helping camouflage the activities of illicit betting syndicates
PETER MICHAEL, Senior Investigative Reporter
Underground gambling syndicates were last night using the Jockey Club's official soccer betting tickets as cover for their own illegal operations - and in most cases were offering better odds.
Within hours of the historic launch of legalised soccer betting at midday yesterday, some illicit bookies had done away with the scraps of paper traditionally used as receipts, preferring to use the real thing in case of a police raid.
"They have just legalised illegal soccer betting," said one of the city's most high-profile international bookmakers, revealing the scam to the South China Morning Post.
Jockey Club officials last night admitted they were "shocked" and "stunned" by the development.
"Of course we cannot allow this to happen," said club spokesman Li Tak-nang.
"This is incredible . . . definitely we have to take this very seriously."
He said the matter would need to be referred to "the highest level" before any action could be taken.
"We need to look into it and try to verify the extent to which this is happening."
The international bookmaker - who asked not to be named - last night told how the scam worked after observing the process in action in a popular Hong Kong soccer bar.
"Previously illegal bookmakers would write out the receipt on a piece of paper," he said.
"But now they don't need it any more because they are using the Jockey Club ticket as unofficial tender.
"They use exactly the same system on the front of the ticket. It is simple. Everybody understands it.
"But then what they do is mark the back of the ticket with a code. They take the money from their clients, note the transaction on their own books, and if they are raided by police simply claim they have scrawled something on the back of the ticket on the way to the official betting outlet."
He said the system seemed to be foolproof and almost impossible for authorities to stop.
"There is no way police can bust them. These are camouflaged receipts, they are not walking around with a bookmaking receipt or a scrap of paper, all they have is a marked ticket with some initials or a numbered code on the back.
"What are they going to arrest them for? Holding a ticket? They [the Jockey Club] have just done the illegal bookmakers a favour, they have just legalised illegal bookmaking." He claimed the underground bookies were also able to offer better odds.
Earlier, Jockey Club officials said the first day of its soccer gambling operation had gone smoothly.
Henry Chan Shing-kai, executive director of betting, said there had been no complaints from customers.
He said $15 million had been taken in the first five hours but refused to offer any further figures.
"That is a once-in-a-lifetime release," he said, detailing the $15 million sum. "Our betting operations are a commercial secret and no other betting figures are to be released in future.
"It is important for us to keep these figures to ourselves in order not to let our competitors understand whether our odds are good or not, how the odds are set and how they are changed.
"We cannot give them any insight into any decision by our expert panel [which sets the odds] in order not to let them understand how the panel is thinking."
He said it was too early to say whether they were "surprised or satisfied" by the turnover figure.
cheesebeast
02-08-2003, 17:47
From SCMP
Legalisation will only help boost our business, underworld bookies claim
PETER MICHAEL
Legal soccer betting kicked off in gambling-mad Hong Kong yesterday with tens of thousands of punters crowding into betting outlets across the city.
"I love watching soccer. It's the first time I've bet on a soccer match," said one punter before wagering $100.
His comments served to reinforce claims by underworld bookies yesterday that legal competition would only boost popular interest in gambling on the sport.
And they claim the legalised betting system was designed for "low-end punters".
"The big punters will not gamble here," said a locally-based international bookmaker at a Hong Kong Jockey Club betting outlet in Tsim Sha Tsui.
"They are going to stick with the illegal bookmakers."
He said the benefits offered by illicit bookies included rolling credit, a guaranteed 10 per cent discount on every loss and the chance to place bets using the Asian handicap system.
"At least 80 per cent of all bets taken by illegal bookies are on the Asian handicap while the Jockey Club only offers fixed odds with slim margins," the bookmaker said.
He said that while illegal bookmakers would keep a watchful eye on the local competition they would continue to follow the odds offered by Indonesian bookmakers.
"Everyone listens to the Indonesians, they are so strong on soccer. They are always first to post their prices and are the biggest bookmakers in Asia."
The city's first legal soccer punter was Jockey Club chairman Ronald Arculli. He bet $100 at counter No 8, chosen for its auspicious sound in Cantonese.
"Betting is a healthy pursuit provided, and I stress provided, you treat it as a form of entertainment. I don't know of anybody making a huge fortune out of betting," Mr Arculli said, pointing to posters that read, "Bet what you can afford. Know when to stop."
Punters will be able to bet on top league matches in England, Germany, Italy and Spain as well as on major international tournaments such as the Champions League.
The government expects $30 billion a year to be wagered on legal soccer gambling, with more than $1 billion hoped to go into its coffers.
hkjc
02/08/2003 (Sat)
German Football
FRI 1
Bayern Munich vs Frankfurt
02:30
_
1.20
5.10
10.00
C6
overound 112.9% -- advantage to JC 11.5%
SAT 1
Hamburg vs Hannover
21:30
1.35
4.25
6.50
overound 113.0% -- advantage to JC 11.5%
_
SAT 2
Hertha Berlin vs Werder Bremen
21:30
1.80
3.30
3.80
overound 112.2% -- advantage to JC 10.9%_
SAT 3
Kaiserslautern vs 1860 Munich
21:30
1.85
3.30
3.50
overound 112.9% -- advantage to JC 11.5%
_
SAT 4
Leverkusen vs Freiburg
21:30
1.55
3.50
5.00
overound 113.1% -- advantage to JC 11.6%
_
SAT 5
Schalke 04 vs Dortmund
21:30
2.10
3.15
3.00
C6
overound 112.7% -- advantage to JC 11.3%
SAT 6
Wolfsburg vs Bochum
21:30
1.52
3.80
4.80
overound 112.9% -- advantage to JC 11.5%
_
03/08/2003 (Sun)
German Football
SUN 1
Monchengladbach vs Cologne
23:30
1.80
3.35
3.65
overound 112.8% -- advantage to JC 11.4%
_
SUN 2
Rostock vs Stuttgart
23:30
2.55
3.20
2.40
overound 112.1% -- advantage to JC 10.8%
_
I never dreamed the JC / G'ovt would be so greedy with their rake. at those prices the soccer is not that much more attractive than the racing.
So that means they are lying to the public when they say they are taking 5% of turnover. They are taking between 11 and 12%.
Seabiscuit
03-08-2003, 10:05
HKJC and HK government - typical monopolist behaviour and shows why they don't like Betfair. Keep out competition from the gambling industry so they can charge monopolistic prices.
Monday, August 4, 2003
Two days after the Jockey Club opens its books, a survey shows that most punters are only willing to wager $50
ERNEST KONG
The Jockey Club has only attracted low-stakes punters since it began taking bets on soccer matches on Friday, a survey has shown.
The poll, conducted by Polytechnic University's Centre for Social Policy Studies, interviewed 1,025 people about their views on soccer betting on Friday and Saturday - when the Jockey Club opened its book on matches in the German Bundesliga.
Only around 2.2 per cent said they had placed bets, although 29 per cent said they were interested in soccer gambling. The average they were willing to bet was $63.20, but 63.3 per cent said they would wager less than $50.
Chung Kim-wah, an assistant professor of applied social science at Polytechnic University, said most of the people in the survey who had placed bets in the first two days were small players.
He said experienced punters might have been discouraged by the limited number of betting options being offered by the Jockey Club.
Punters are only allowed to bet on the total number of goals scored in a match; predict the correct score result; gamble on the result of a match that ends in a home win, a draw, or an away win; or speculate on the home/away/draw result for a series of matches.
"It is still too early to say that the legalisation of soccer betting will reduce the threat of illegal book makers," he said
Only four out of the 23 respondents who bet on Friday and Saturday said they had previously gambled illegally on soccer gambling.
"Legalising soccer betting has attracted people who have never gambled on soccer to bet," Dr Chung said.
The survey also showed that teenagers were particularly interested in soccer gambling. Forty-nine per cent of respondents aged 15 to 17 showed an interest in placing a bet, compared with 33.4 per cent of people aged 18 to 49, and 12.4 per cent for those over 50.
Dr Chung also said there had been a drastic change in perception towards soccer gambling compared with two years ago, when 83.1 per cent people questioned said they did not regard soccer betting as a form of entertainment. That figure had now dropped to just 4.2 per cent. But the poll showed that soccer betting was still a controversial issue, with 40 per cent saying it would have a negative impact on teenagers.
On Saturday the Jockey Club refused to release turnover figures for its soccer gambling business, fuelling speculation that illegal bookmakers might still be cornering much of the action. However, the deputy police commissioner, Dick Lee Ming-kwai, said there had been no sign of a surge in illegal betting.
Club bosses would only reveal that $15 million had been placed on bets in the first five hours of betting on the Bundesliga on Friday.
zeditave
07-08-2003, 07:27
why on earth would someone betting $10k per game at 102% switch to betting 'legally' at 112% in a betting option they don't like?
cheesebeast
10-08-2003, 06:18
From The Independent UK
http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/news/story.jsp?story=432141
Premiership team-by-team analysis
By Alex Hayes
10 August 2003
Arsenal
This time last year Arsène Wenger was hinting both that his side could go the entire season without being defeated and that there was a change in the balance of power in English football. Twelve months, several losses, a failed title defence and three summer signings later, the Frenchman is far more cautious in his predictions for the forthcoming season. Arsenal remain favourites along with Man United, but much of the Gunners' potential success will depend on the likes of Patrick Vieira and Robert Pires putting pen to paper on new contracts. If they don't, this could be the beginning of the end.
Key man: Patrick Vieira
Prediction: 5th
Manager: Arsène Wenger
Ins: Jens Lehmann (Borussia Dortmund, £1.5m);
Philippe Senderos (Servette Geneva, £500,000);
Gaël Clichy (Cannes)
Outs: David Seaman (Manchester City);
Oleg Luzhny (Wolves);
Guillaume Warmuz (Borussia Dortmund);
Graham Barrett (Coventry)
Loan (Out): Moritz Volz (Fulham)
Released: Jermaine Brown
Ground: Highbury (capacity 38,500)
Last season: 2nd. Odds: 9-4
Aston Villa
Optimists will say that David O'Leary's arrival to replace Graham Taylor at Villa Park must signal the promotion of youth and a repeat of his initial success at Leeds. However, pessimists (or should that be realists?) will point out that the Irishman benefited from a very generous chairman at Elland Road. Funds will be typically restrained in the land of Doug Ellis, testing O'Leary's managerial skills to the limit. There is a decent nucleus of players at the club, not least the striker Darius Vassell, who has yet to replicate his England performances in the claret and blue, and the playmaker Lee Hendrie. A season of rebuilding.
Key man: Lee Hendrie
Prediction: 11th
Manager: David O'Leary
Ins: Gavin McCann (Sunderland, £2.25m);
Thomas Sorensen (Sunderland, £2.25m);
Robert Olejnik (FK Austria Wien)
Outs: Alan Wright (Middlesbrough);
Ian Taylor (Derby County);
Michael Husbands (Southend);
John McGrath (Doncaster)
Loan (Out): Boaz Myhill (Macclesfield)
Released: Mark Atkinson;
Oliver Williams;
Oyvind Leonhardsen
Ground: Villa Park (42,602)
Last season: 16th. Odds: 200-1
Birmingham City
Survival of a maiden season in the top flight is no mean feat, and the Blues largely stayed up by spending in the transfer window, but the test comes now. As the likes of Bradford City and Ipswich have shown, the second year is all-important. Perhaps this explains why Steve Bruce has splashed out a club record £5.5m on David Dunn. The City manager clearly feels that, while his team are defensively sound, they often lack that creative spark in midfield. There were no such problems up front during the second half of last season, and the subsequent permanent signing of Christophe Dugarry should ensure survival.
Key man: Christophe Dugarry
Prediction: 14th
Manager: Steve Bruce
Ins: David Dunn (Blackburn, £5.5m);
Luciano Figueroa (Rosario, Arg, £2.5m);
Christophe Dugarry (Bordeaux, from loan)
Loan (In): Maik Taylor (Fulham)
Outs: Tony Capaldi (Plymouth Argyle);
Tommy Mooney (Swindon);
Peter Gilbert (Plymouth Argyle)
Released: Andy Marriott;
Steve Vickers
Ground: St Andrew's (30,009)
Last season: 13th. Odds: 750-1
Blackburn Rovers
Few could have predicted that, after finishing sixth, Rovers would embark on a selling spree. Several key players are gone, not least their talisman Damien Duff, leaving the club looking over its shoulder rather than ahead. The arrival of the exciting Australian winger Brett Emerton will help, particularly in Europe, but the squad look a little short of experience. Much will therefore be expected of the older players. Garry Flitcroft remains an ever-present captain, while the Turkish midfielder Tugay is the conduit for the side. If only Andy Cole and Dwight Yorke could recapture some of that old magic.
Key man: Tugay
Prediction: 10th
Manager: Graeme Souness
Ins: Steven Reid (Millwall, £2.5m);
Brett Emerton (Feyenoord, £2.2m);
Lorenzo Amoruso (Rangers, £1.4m);
Vratislav Gresko (Parma, £1.2m);
David Yelldell (Stuttgart Kickers)
Outs: Damien Duff (Chelsea, £17m);
David Dunn (Birmingham City, £5.5m);
Hakan Sukur (Galatasaray);
Keith Gillespie (Leicester City);
Darren Hockenhull (Halifax);
Craig Hignett (Leicester City);
Henning Berg (Rangers);
John Curtis (Leicester City);
James Corbett (Southend)
Released: Ryan Robinson, Darren Dunning
Ground: Ewood Park (31,367)
Last season: 6th. Odds: 150-1
Bolton Wanderers
Having discovered the formula for Premiership survival and carried it out to the letter these past two seasons, expect much of the same from Sam Allardyce's troops this term. There will be tight defending, few goals scored and an emphasis on starting the season well. The rest, as Big Sam would say, is just a bonus. The rest, in this case, is the fact that Bolton are home to two outstanding individual talents who can light up the Premiership on their day. Jay-Jay Okocha is not referred to as Africa's Maradona for nothing, while Youri Djorkaeff, who will miss the first four weeks with an injury, has already proved he has desire.
Key man: Youri Djorkaeff
Prediction: 15th
Manager: Sam Allardyce
Ins: Florent Laville (Lyon, £500,000);
Stylianos Giannakopoulos (Olympiakos);
Ivan Campo (Real Madrid);
Kevin Davies (Southampton)
Outs: Chris Armstrong (Wrexham)
Loan (Out): Gérald Forchelet (Chateauroux, Fr)
Released: Chris Downey;
Paul Warhurst;
Stig Tofting
Retired: Gudni Bergsson, Colin Hendry
Ground: Reebok Stadium (27,879)
Last season: 17th. Odds: 1,000-1
Charlton Athletic
Much will depend on their home form. Without their excellent results at The Valley last season, Alan Curbishley's over-achievers might have fallen through the trapdoor in May. The young manager knows this and will be keen for his side to improve on the poor start they made this time 12 months ago. The Curbishley method is still to play young British players and the addition of the evergreen Matt Holland follows in that vein. The Republic of Ireland international rarely misses a match and his know-how will be much needed during what looks a tricky season. Could it be the drop again for the ex-Ipswich man?
Key man: Matt Holland
Prediction: 17th
Manager: Alan Curbishley
Ins: Matt Holland (Ipswich Town, £750,000);
Hermann Hreidarsson (Ipswich Town);
Simon Royce (Leicester City)
Outs: Robbie Mustoe (to Sheffield Wed);
Jesper Blomqvist (Djurgaarden, Swe);
John Robinson (Cardiff City)
Released: Jamie Martin;
Paul Robson;
Tahar El Khalej;
Fatih Dincer;
Greg Sharland
Ground: The Valley (26,875)
Last season: 12th. Odds: 1,000-1
Chelsea
So, can Chelsea do a "Blackburn" and buy the title? With Roman Abramovich's open cheque book, maybe, just maybe, the top prize could be on its way to Stamford Bridge for the first time since 1955. Much will depend not on the creative side that will be strengthened by the signing of Damien Duff, Joe Cole and Juan Sebastian Veron, nor the defence which looked solid last season, but the midfield that often lacks bite. Frank Lampard has made the attacking role his, but Emmanuel Petit has failed to find his Arsenal form. Cue the tough-tackling Géremi who could be the player Chelsea have been craving.
Key man: Géremi
Prediction: Champions
Manager: Claudio Ranieri
Ins: Damien Duff (Blackburn, £17m);
Juan Sebastian Veron (Man Utd, £15m);
Wayne Bridge (Southampton, £7m);
Géremi (Real Madrid, £6.9m);
Joe Cole (West Ham, £6.6m);
Glen Johnson (West Ham, £6m);
Jürgen Macho (Sunderland);
Marco Ambrosio (Verona)
Outs: Andy Ross (Partick Thistle);
Jean-Yves Anis (Partick Thistle);
Robert Wolleaston (Bradford);
Enrique De Lucas (Alaves);
Gianfranco Zola (Cagliari);
Graeme Le Saux (Southampton);
Jody Morris (Leeds Utd);
Ed de Goey (Stoke City).
Loan (Out): Leon Knight (Brighton).
Released: Rhys Evans, Scott Cousins, Albert Ferrer
Ground: Stamford Bridge (42,449)
Last season: 4th. Odds: 6-1
Everton
Despite a late slump, last season was a success. Especially when one considers that David Moyes was working with the same set of players (Joseph Yobo apart) as his predecessor Walter Smith. What the long-suffering Evertonians want to know is whether that was a one-off or a new dawn. The same could be said of the boy wonder of English football, Wayne Rooney, who will be marked much closer and will have to justify his tag of international striker. Everton only missed out on a Uefa Cup place on the last day of the season, so any route into Europe would be welcome, but there is still a worrying absence of midfield craft.
Key man: Wayne Rooney
Prediction: 8th
Manager: David Moyes
Ins: Joseph Yobo (Marseille, from loan)
Outs: George Pilkington (Port Vale)
Released: Juliano Rodrigo;
David Carney;
Stephen Beck
Ground: Goodison Park (40,170)
Last season: 7th. Odds: 125-1
Fulham
With Mohamed al Fayed enjoying the quiet life in Switzerland and plans for the redevelopment of Craven Cottage looking less and less likely, the future is not bright for Fulham. On the pitch, too, the good old spending days are long gone, with only one new arrival on a free. Jérôme Bonnissel is an experienced defender who will add some much-needed steel to the Fulham rearguard, but the Frenchman alone is unlikely to be able to save the Cottagers. Chris Coleman, for all his enthusiasm, has just nine months' managing experience and may struggle when the going gets tough. The three-year-long party could soon be over.
Key man: Steed Malbranque
Prediction: 18th
Manager: Chris Coleman
Ins: Jérôme Bonnissel (Rangers);
Dave Beasant (Brighton)
Loan (In): Moritz Volz (Arsenal)
Loan (Out): Maik Taylor (Birmingham City)
Outs: Steve Finnan (Liverpool, £3.5m);
Lucas Cornwall (Bradford City)
Released: John Collins;
Bjarne Goldbaek;
David Shevel
Ground: Loftus Road (ground-share with QPR, 19,148)
Last season: 14th. Odds: 1,000-1
Leeds United
Where do Leeds go from here? Up, presumably, although such has been the fall over the last 12 months that anything is possible. Peter Reid steadied a sinking ship last season but whether he can drive the club back to the European places depends on his players' desire. The likes of Mark Viduka can be unstoppable on their day, but uninterested on too many others. The same cannot be said of Alan Smith, who is a Leeds man through and through and would be the last man standing on the deck if the vessel did sink next May. More likely is a mediocre but less traumatic season with a mid-table finish at the end.
Key man: Alan Smith
Prediction: 12th
Manager: Peter Reid
Ins: Jody Morris (Chelsea)
Loan (In:) Zoumana Camara (Lens);
Didier Domi (Paris St Germain)
Loan (Out): Danny Milosevic (Crewe);
Harpal Singh (Bury)
Outs: Harry Kewell (Liverpool, £5m);
Olivier Dacourt (Roma, £3.5m);
Shane Cansdell-Sherriff (AGF Aarhus);
Thomas Newey (Leyton Orient)
Released: Jacob Burns
Ground: Elland Road (40,296)
Last season: 15th. Odds: 250-1
Leicester City
No one has been busier in terms of shopping this summer, and yet Micky Adams' squad still look ill-equipped to survive the rigours of a Premiership season. The experience of Keith Gillespie and Les Ferdinand will help the naïve Foxes, but low-cost buys rarely have a long-term impact. Adams has done well on a shoe-string budget over the past 15 months, and the faithful will be happy that their club are now out of receivership, but one senses that determination and organisation alone will not be enough to stave off relegation. Fourth from bottom is the aim, but bottom might be the outcome.
Key man: Muzzy Izzet
Prediction: 20th
Manager: Micky Adams
Ins: Danny Coyne (Grimsby Town);
Keith Gillespie (Blackburn);
Les Ferdinand (West Ham);
Steve Howey (Manchester City);
Lilian Nalis (Verona);
Paul Brooker (Brighton);
Riccardo Scimeca (Nottingham Forest);
Ben Thatcher (Tottenham);
Nicolas Priet (Lyon);
Craig Hignett (Blackburn);
John Curtis (Blackburn)
Out: Simon Royce (Charlton).
Loan: Jon Ashford (Crewe).
Released: Martin Reeves;
Michael Price;
Ashley Lyth;
Darren Eadie;
Stefan Oakes;
Nicky Summerbee;
Jonathan Stevenson.
Retired: Tim Flowers
Ground: The Walkers Stadium (32,500)
Last season: 2nd (First Div). Odds: 2,000-1
Liverpool
No matter that the title continues to elude Gérard Houllier, the Frenchman still enjoys the financial support of his board. Another £8.5m has been spent on strengthening the team, with a more attacking right-back, Steve Finnan, brought in to balance the forays of John Arne Riise on the other flank. More importantly, Harry Kewell has arrived with the task of making Liverpool more sexy. Too often last season the Reds lacked invention in the final third, thus having to rely on Michael Owen's trickery for goals. Kewell should add a new dimension, not to mention that link between midfield and attack.
Key man: Harry Kewell
Prediction: 3rd
Manager: Gérard Houllier
Ins: Harry Kewell (Leeds Utd, £5m);
Steve Finnan (Fulham, £3.5m);
Anthony Le Tallec (Le Havre);
Florent Sinama-Pongolle (Le Havre)
Outs: Patrik Berger (Portsmouth)
Loan (Out): Stephen Warnock (Coventry City);
Neil Mellor (West Ham)
Released: Bernard Diomède;
Vegard Heggem;
Matthew Murray;
Pegguy Arphexad;
Tim Dittmer;
Stephen McNulty;
Mark Peers;
Chris McGrath
Ground: Anfield (45,362)
Last season: 5th. Odds: 6-1
Manchester City
Forget Kevin Keegan's enthusiasm and forget David Seaman's determination to prove his doubters wrong, City's best weapon this season will be their new City of Manchester stadium. The arena was used for last year's Commonwealth Games and has since undergone a multi-million pound revamp. The result is stunning and, provided the players do not get overawed by it themselves, the stadium should help secure more points than Maine Road did last season. City snuck into Europe through the back door that is the Fair Play League, but qualification could be easier come May.
Key man: Nicolas Anelka
Prediction: 6th
Manager: Kevin Keegan
Ins: Trevor Sinclair (West Ham Utd, £2.5m);
Antoine Sibierski (Lens, £700,000);
David Seaman (Arsenal);
Michael Tarnat (Bayern Munich);
Paul Bosvelt (Feyenoord)
Outs: Niclas Jensen (Borussia Dortmund, £750,000);
Shaun Goater (Reading, £500,000);
Steve Howey (Leicester City);
Tyrone Loran (Tranmere);
Brian Murphy (Swansea)
Loan (Out): Vicente Matias Vuoso (Santos Laguna, Mex);
Chris Shuker (Rochdale)
Released: Stephen Paisley;
Gary Browne;
Mark Egerton;
James Almond;
David Tickle;
Adrian Orr;
Ashley Timms;
Philip Gilder;
Adam James;
Ali Bernarbia.
Retired: Peter Schmeichel
Ground: City of Manchester (48,000)
Last season: 9th. Odds: 200-1
Manchester United
This summer has been all about the two that got away. With David Beckham gone, Sir Alex Ferguson was hoping to bring Ronaldinho to Old Trafford. Instead, he has lost out on the Brazilian, too, and has had to invest in more low-key players. That may not matter much in the quest for yet another Premiership title, but could prove crucial in Europe. The Scot has admitted that Ronaldinho would have made the difference in the Champions' League, but then he also thought that Juan Sebastian Veron could deliver the trophy, and he failed to do so.
Key man: Ruud van Nistelrooy
Prediction: 2nd
Manager: Sir Alex Ferguson
Ins: Eric Djemba-Djemba (Nantes, £3.5m);
Tim Howard (MetroStars, US, £2.3m);
David Bellion (Sunderland, £130,000);
Kleberson (Atletico Paranaense, Br, awaiting work permit)
Outs: David Beckham (Real Madrid, £25m);
Juan Sebastian Veron (Chelsea, £15m);
Danny Webber (Watford);
Lee Roche (Burnley).
Loan (Out): Luke Chadwick (Burnley);
Michael Stewart (Nottingham Forest).
Released: Kalam Mooniaruck;
John Rankin;
David May,
Retired: Laurent Blanc
Ground: Old Trafford (68,210)
Last season: 1st. Odds: 6-5
Middlesbrough
Some will say that Steve McClaren is a young and progressive manager who is the future of English coaching, while others will argue that he is best suited to the role of No 2. Truth be told, the jury is still out. In two years and nearly £35m investedthe former England assistant has secured little more than Premiership survival. The fans and the chairman will be hoping for more this term, with a push for Europea must. Whether McClaren's at times over-cautious system will allow Boro to flourish remains to be seen, so much will rest with the little Brazilian magician Juninho.
Key man: Juninho
Prediction: 13th
Manager: Steve McClaren
Ins: Doriva (Celta Vigo);
Alan Wright (Aston Villa)
Outs: Tony Vidmar (Cardiff City);
Noel Whelan (Millwall);
Ben Roberts (Bradford City)
Loan (Out): Bradley Jones (Rotherham)
Released: Jonathan Agbatar;
Alen Boksic;
Jason Gavin;
Arturo Bernhardt
Ground: Riverside Stadium (35,120)
Last season: 11th. Odds: 250-1
Newcastle United
Many believe that it is now or never for Sir Bobby's Newcastle, but the team are still young and may need one more season before they can go on to challenge for honours. The defence have been the Achilles heel over the past two seasons, but the signing of Jonathan Woodgate should bear fruit this term. Up front, there is no reason to doubt Alan Shearer and Craig Bellamy, while Carl Cort has looked fit in pre-season. The midfield is full of pace and invention, but there is often a lack of the tough tackling and leadership that Rob Lee used to provide. This might just be their undoing.
Key man: Alan Shearer
Prediction: 4th
Manager: Bobby Robson
In: Lee Bowyer (West Ham)
Out: Joseph Kendrick (1860 Munich)
Released: Damien Robson;
John Karelse
Ground: St James' Park (52,193)
Last season: 3rd. Odds: 8-1
Portsmouth
The players are generally regarded as the key to any club's success, but in Portsmouth's case that is not strictly true. Harry Redknapp is the leader of the Pompey revolution, having worked wonders with a squad who were teetering on the brink of Second Division football 14 months ago and won the First Division title in May. The former West Ham manager has always built tight-knit units, relying on teamwork rather than individuals, and that remains the ethos, particularly for this first season back at the top. Touches of class come courtesy of Patrik Berger and Teddy Sheringham.
Key man: Teddy Sheringham
Prediction: 19th
Manager: Harry Redknapp
Ins: Dejan Stefanovic (Vitesse Arnhem, £1.9m);
Andy Faye (Auxerre, £1.5m);
Teddy Sheringham (Tottenham);
Harald Wapenaar (FC Utrecht);
Patrik Berger (Liverpool);
Boris Zivkovic (Bayer Leverkusen)
Outs: Paul Merson (Walsall);
Jason Crowe (Grimsby)
Released: Carl Tiler;
Luke Nightingale;
Lee Molyneaux;
Tom White
Ground: Fratton Park (19,179)
Last season: 1st (First Div). Odds: 1,000-1
Southampton
Having set the bar high - Gordon Strachan's men finished eighth in the League and reached the FA Cup final last season - Saints will be hard-pressed to repeat those feats. But at least their old insecurities have gone, and the club will be confident that survival is well within their reach. The Uefa Cup will excite the fans but cause concern for the manager, whose squad are ill-equipped for an assault on both domestic and European fronts. Much will be expected of James Beattie, who is keen to prove he is no one-season wonder. He will also be anxious for the Kevin Phillips deal to go through.
Key man: James Beattie
Prediction: 9th
Manager: Gordon Strachan
Ins: Neil McCann (Rangers, £1.5m);
Yoann Folly (St Etienne, £250,000);
Fitz Hall (Oldham, £250,000);
Darren Kenton (Norwich City);
Leandre Griffit (Amiens, Fr);
Graeme Le Saux (Chelsea)
Outs: Wayne Bridge (Chelsea, £7m);
Kevin Davies (Bolton)
Released: Federico Arias
Ground: Friends Provident St Mary's (32,551)
Last season: 8th. Odds: 750-1
Tottenham Hotspur
Spurs have never finished higher than seventh in the Premiership, and there is little to suggest that they might improve on that record this term. True, they have acquired three strikers, but two of those are unproven at this level, while the third is injury-prone. The same could be said of the midfield, which will consist of three walking wounded: Jamie Redknapp, Gus Poyet and Darren Anderton. Thank goodness for Simon Davies, Tottenham's best player last season and the subject of several transfer rumours, who adds purpose and drive to a sometimes attractive but invariably vulnerable team.
Key man: Simon Davies
Prediction: 7th
Manager: Glenn Hoddle
Ins: Helder Postiga (Porto, £6.2m);
Frédéric Kanouté (West Ham, £3.5m);
Bobby Zamora (Brighton, £1.5m)
Outs: Teddy Sheringham (Portsmouth);
Ben Thatcher (Leicester City);
Steffen Iversen (Wolves);
Steffen Freund (Kaiserslautern);
Matthew Etherington (West Ham);
Alton Thelwell (Hull City)
Loan (Out): Mark Yeates (QPR)
Released: George Snee;
Gavin Kelly;
Tim Ford;
Paul Rutherford
Ground: White Hart Lane (36,236)
Last season: 10th. Odds: 250-1
Wolverhampton Wanderers
When you have waited 19 years and spent £60m to return to the top flight, the one thing you want to ensure is that you do not end up going straight down again. No wonder, then, that Dave Jones has been strengthening the squad. The one question remaining is whether the signings are of Premiership quality. Steffen Iversen, when fit, certainly is, while the likes of Oleg Luzhny, Denis Irwin and Paul Ince will provide backbone. The invention, though, may prove more tricky. Colin Cameron has a neat touch, but it is the Scottish international striker Kenny Miller who probably holds the key to survival.
Key man: Kenny Miller
Prediction: 16th
Manager: David Jones
Ins: Jody Craddock (Sunderland, £1.75m);
Henri Camara (Sedan, Fr, £1.5m);
Silas (Uniao Leiria, Por, £1m);
Isaac Okoronkwo (Shakhtar Donetsk, Ukr);
Oleg Luzhny (Arsenal);
Steffen Iversen (Tottenham)
Loan (In): Carlos Kameni (Le Havre).
Outs: Cedric Roussel (Genk);
Kenny Coleman (Kidderminster);
Mohammed Camara (Burnley).
Loan (Out): Keith Andrews (Stoke).
Released: Michael Branch;
Marc Edworthy;
Ludovic Pollet
Ground: Molineux Stadium (28,525)
Last season: 5th (First Div). Odds: 1,000-1
10 August 2003 06:12
The poor odds being offered have as much to do with incompetence as they do with attitude, and they were 100 per cent predictable, as is the devastation they will bring.
The HKJC "negotiatd" to pay the government a huge proportion of gross profit, leaving them no room to move in odds setting and a lot of empty promises to keep...
So that means they are lying to the public when they say they are taking 5% of turnover.
PDA did they ever say that -- i had been awaiting some announcement on same but heard nothing until they published the prices.
poor odds being offered have as much to do with incompetence
agree fedora -- last weekends prices were even more bizarre but let us keep it secret as best for us if they stuff up their soccer betting venture as much as possible. truly they have not a single clue. am happy little vegemite. :) ;) :) ;) :) ;) :)
Seabiscuit
14-08-2003, 17:50
I saw L Wong on a dud documentary on Hong Kong racing. Doco was made in 2003. Wong's attitude was that the HKJC was simply a government agent - a government tax collector. As often with these gambling monopolies the HKJC and HK government then seem to be one and the same.
Smithers
25-08-2003, 12:19
Monday, August 25, 2003
Jockey Club betting on mainland visitors
KELVIN WONG
Prev. Story | Next Story
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The Jockey Club is targeting mainland visitors, hoping their betting flutters at the track will make up for any negative impact soccer gambling has on horse racing.
The club's chief executive, Lawrence Wong, said the club would be closely watching next weekend's opening of the racing season for signs of any impact.
"I don't know if soccer betting will affect our revenue from the horse races or not," he said. "I think we all have to wait until next month [when the horse racing season kicks off] to find out."
Mr Wong said the Jockey Club would focus on promoting both soccer and horse-race betting to mainland visitors, whose numbers are rising steeply following the government's decision to allow them to visit Hong Kong as individuals rather than with tour groups.
He said the club would continue to intensify Putonghua training programmes for its staff and consider new rounds of hiring to cope with the increasing number of mainland customers.
The Jockey Club hired more than 3,000 extra workers this summer as it prepared for soccer betting.
Mr Wong also confirmed that the club would expand on its simple set of wagers and launch its own version of the popular Asian handicap system, where money is staked on the underdogs to lose by a smaller margin than the one set out by the bookmakers.
"We will add more types of bets, including those used only by underground bookmakers in the past, such as the handicap system'' he said. "We do not have a definite timetable right now but I can say that it will be ready in two to three months' time."
Since it began taking bets on football three weeks ago, the Jockey Club has come under fire for its failure to lure punters from illegal bookmakers and its advertising methods.
the mainland tourists must be the first good news for HKJC's turnover in a long time. lets hope they bring plenty of cash to spend at the races!!!
cheesebeast
26-08-2003, 14:09
The Jockey Club yesterday stopped accepting bets on one soccer roll-up for more than three hours for the first time since the legislation of soccer betting.
The suspension from 2pm to 5:20pm left hundreds of punters frustrated and confused when they were turned away from the betting windows. The move was later described as "quite normal" by Jockey Club spokesman Li Tak-nang. The combined bet was for Liverpool, Arsenal and Bayern Munich to win. Mr Li said the club decided to suspend accepting bets when the amount wagered on this combination "became lopsided". "It's a normal practice for operators," he explained. "Such moves are part of risk management. When bets are one-sided, the club will take necessary action."
However Mr Li refused to disclose the amount of money which had been pumped into the roll-up.
The odds opened at 6.2 to 1 on Friday, falling to 3.5 to 1 before the suspension.
Mr Li warned that yesterday's suspension would not be the last, adding that if similar one-sided bets occurred again in the future, the club would take similar action.
When asked why the club failed to inform punters about the suspension, he said the handling of the incident would be reviewed.
Some punters complained they were not told of the suspension until they went up to the counter. "It's just not right, and unfair. I deliberately go out of my way to an off-course betting centre to place my bets," a Quarry Bay punter said.
It was fortunate for this gambler, however, as he would have lost the first leg, with Liverpool drawing with Aston Villa in the English Premiership.
cheesebeast
26-08-2003, 14:10
SCMP Tuesday, August 26, 2003
Syndicate betting splurge may have sparked suspension
An analyst says the Jockey Club's soccer move was laughable - and it would have won anyway
PETER MICHAEL
A powerful gambling syndicate or the "flock mentality" of football fans are among the possible explanations for a betting surge which triggered a three-hour suspension of a soccer gambling combination on Sunday, experts say.
For the first time since football betting was legalised on August 1, hundreds of frustrated gamblers were turned away from betting on one all-up combination - placing Arsenal, Liverpool and Bayern Munich to win - after huge amounts of cash were placed on this outcome. Hong Kong Jockey Club authorities ordered the suspension of betting from 2pm to 5.20pm.
Amid a widespread furore over the decision, some analysts slammed the move as "laughable" and "over-cautious", while Jockey Club officials have warned punters to be prepared for similar suspensions in the future.
Jockey Club spokesman Li Tak-nang yesterday said the decision to suspend betting was made only after the amount wagered on the combination became "lopsided". The odds opened at 6.2 to 1 on Friday, falling to 3.5 to 1 before the suspension of bets.
But Mr Li refused to discuss what might have caused the betting frenzy.
"We really don't know [if it was one big syndicate]," he said. "And I would not disclose any details even if I had some."
Mr Li said it was important to note that the three teams were hugely popular among Hong Kong fans.
Gambling risk managers employed several options to balance "a lopsided situation", including adjusting the odds, hedging the bets with an offshore agency or suspending bets, he said.
"Of course we don't want to see this [suspension] happen too often. But as one of the practices in risk management we can't rule out the future possibility, especially if the bets come in a big amount or things get lopsided," Mr Li said.
As it turned out, the club would have banked a huge profit from accepting all the combination bets after Liverpool drew nil-nil with Aston Villa.
Mr Li confirmed the Jockey Club had received complaints from customers about the suspension and said the operation was under review.
One international bookmaker, formerly based in Hong Kong, said one of the triggers for the suspension may have been a powerful syndicate unloading a huge reserve of cash on the outcome.
"That might have made them very nervous," the bookie said.
A betting analyst said the decision to suspend bets was "laughable" and showed that the Jockey Club's risk managers were being "over-cautious". "And as the weekend showed, they would have made a profit on the all-up bets anyway."
Sociologist Dr Lui Tai-lok said the popularity of the Arsenal-Liverpool-Munich combination might have had more to do with the "flock mentality" of local fans.
i think these prices are about right at close of betting from leading bookies.
liverpool 2.0
arsenal 1.65
b munich 2.8
so at these prices the real chance of getting the treble was about 11% . who wouldnt love to take a fortune at 3.2/1 !!!!!! doh!!!
cheesebeast
26-08-2003, 15:52
Indeed seems crazy - I got some 1-89 on Arsenal on BF and think they were trading at least > 1-80 prior to kick-off, likewise am fairly sure Liverpool were > 2-20 before kick-off, had no idea re Bayern Munich price but seems the JC guys are a bunch of wimps with NFI!
cheesebeast
26-08-2003, 15:56
This site seems to have quite a good tipster - here's his tips from the weekend just finished.
http://www.bookiebusters.net/tony_quinlan2.html
http://www.bookiebusters.net/tony_quinlan3.html
The Daily Honey section of the website is often quite inspiring.
http://www.bookiebusters.net/daily_honey.html
Seabiscuit
26-08-2003, 15:58
Why didn't the HKJC just use an exchange model for soccer betting? No risk of losing and much lower costs of operation. If they wanted to take a big monopolistic profit they just had to set much higher commission rates than Betfair.
Plus you have the option of in running betting if you want.
Betfair seem to match about 7 million pounds on the England v South Africa cricket tests most of it bet in running. Trading volume seems to grow all the time. Surely the way of the future.
Yeah...can you imagine a soccer betting sxchange being run in Hong Kong and China? It would just be a licence to print money.
If you were the one operating it you could just sit back, realax, sip on your pina colada and watch the goose lay some golden eggs.
poor odds being offered have as much to do with incompetence
agree fedora -- last weekends prices were even more bizarre but let us keep it secret as best for us if they stuff up their soccer betting venture as much as possible. truly they have not a single clue. am happy little vegemite. :) ;) :) ;) :) ;) :)
cheesebeast
10-09-2003, 15:14
England v Liechtenstein tonight - England at 1-03 to 1-04 the win on Betfair.
Join the queue if you want to lay England - there's £1,020,986 available at 1-02 and £1,632,934 at 1-01.:p
WED 11 England vs Liechtenstein 02:50 1.01 10.00 10.00 C99
NOTE Liechtenstein @ 10.00 with the JC ---currently 150 bid, 160 offer on Betfair so JC has 93% advantage on every dollar outlayed with them on Liechtenstein.
why could they not continue offering their original 50.00 quote and raking in their 66% advantage on that price?? they should be encouraging every $ the suckers are prepared to outlay at the pathetic 50.00 price but instead the fuckwits refuse the donation.
never have i seen such incompetence from any organisation in the gambling business.
the gov't should terminate their contract immediately and replace them with any organisation with a brain.
not only was Liechtenstein way under at 10 so was the draw at 10 and so was england at 1.01.
would like to see how much action they got and how offering these prices is possibly going to help with the battle against illegal betting.
they better start learning something very fast - who is running this BTW?
The 2-0 score line was a bad result! England have little class as they always play poorly against weaker teams.
Handy Harry
11-09-2003, 10:46
By the sounds of things the HKJC are only encouraging the underground football bookies.
If the HKJC would really like to make a show of things they should set up an exchange themeselves and perhaps make everyone register with them. No risk and big payoffs to the HKJC.
But I guess you guys wouldnt want to see that?
cheesebeast
11-09-2003, 16:10
Can this be true?
Liechtenstein Population
Population 32,207 (July 2000 est.)
Age structure 0-14 years:18% (male 2,970; female 2,988)
15-64 years:71% (male 11,379; female 11,370)
65 years and over:11% (male 1,393; female 2,107) (2000 est.)
I might move to Liechtenstein and have a crack at getting in their soccer team, could then rub shoulders with royalty I mean David Beckham.
I would have thought a 1-02 shot should win by more than 2 goals? I saw the over 2.5 goals option was trading 1-13 before kickoff, I think a few peops would have lost their arse in that market.
cheesebeast
11-09-2003, 16:16
England Population
Age Range Total Males Females
0 - 4 2,926,460 1,498,354 1,428,106
5 - 9 3,122,646 1,599,932 1,522,714
10 - 14 3,229,098 1,653,107 1,575,991
15 - 19 3,032,714 1,550,903 1,481,811
20 - 24 2,952,885 1,469,004 1,483,881
25 - 29 3,268,760 1,603,559 1,665,201
30 - 34 3,785,676 1,857,168 1,928,508
35 - 39 3,881,043 1,915,937 1,965,106
40 - 44 3,460,849 1,719,412 1,741,437
45 - 49 3,111,538 1,541,999 1,569,539
50 - 54 3,382,567 1,677,360 1,705,207
55 - 59 2,785,286 1,379,477 1,405,809
60 - 64 2,391,708 1,174,449 1,217,259
65 - 69 2,153,925 1,034,649 1,119,276
70 - 74 1,948,731 886,793 1,061,938
75 - 79 1,645,033 687,287 957,746
80 - 84 1,105,896 408,958 696,938
85 - 89 638,384 193,860 444,524
90 and over 315,632 71,182 244,450
Total 49,138,831 23,923,390 25,215,441
cheesebeast
11-09-2003, 16:59
Age Total Males Females Males - Females % Males % Females
All ages 49,138,831 23,923,390 25,215,441 (1,292,051) 48.69% 51.31%
- 554,516 283,223 271,293 11,930 51.08% 48.92%
1 572,731 293,773 278,958 14,815 51.29% 48.71%
2 587,449 300,950 286,499 14,451 51.23% 48.77%
3 597,212 305,690 291,522 14,168 51.19% 48.81%
4 614,552 314,718 299,834 14,884 51.21% 48.79%
5 603,507 309,174 294,333 14,841 51.23% 48.77%
6 608,141 312,179 295,962 16,217 51.33% 48.67%
7 625,113 320,232 304,881 15,351 51.23% 48.77%
8 631,401 323,364 308,037 15,327 51.21% 48.79%
9 654,484 334,983 319,501 15,482 51.18% 48.82%
10 660,191 338,099 322,092 16,007 51.21% 48.79%
11 646,745 331,255 315,490 15,765 51.22% 48.78%
12 641,090 327,943 313,147 14,796 51.15% 48.85%
13 651,541 333,877 317,664 16,213 51.24% 48.76%
14 629,531 321,933 307,598 14,335 51.14% 48.86%
15 633,031 325,065 307,966 17,099 51.35% 48.65%
16 627,500 322,315 305,185 17,130 51.36% 48.64%
17 602,405 309,410 292,995 16,415 51.36% 48.64%
18 590,163 301,286 288,877 12,409 51.05% 48.95%
19 579,615 292,827 286,788 6,039 50.52% 49.48%
20 615,720 309,375 306,345 3,030 50.25% 49.75%
21 611,515 306,074 305,441 633 50.05% 49.95%
22 588,418 292,741 295,677 (2,936) 49.75% 50.25%
23 564,292 279,012 285,280 (6,268) 49.44% 50.56%
24 572,940 281,802 291,138 (9,336) 49.19% 50.81%
25 589,066 289,035 300,031 (10,996) 49.07% 50.93%
26 617,714 303,057 314,657 (11,600) 49.06% 50.94%
27 642,896 314,781 328,115 (13,334) 48.96% 51.04%
28 689,454 338,942 350,512 (11,570) 49.16% 50.84%
29 729,630 357,744 371,886 (14,142) 49.03% 50.97%
30 741,403 362,570 378,833 (16,263) 48.90% 51.10%
31 732,927 359,830 373,097 (13,267) 49.09% 50.91%
32 759,996 372,137 387,859 (15,722) 48.97% 51.03%
33 764,045 374,936 389,109 (14,173) 49.07% 50.93%
34 787,305 387,695 399,610 (11,915) 49.24% 50.76%
35 784,119 385,742 398,377 (12,635) 49.19% 50.81%
36 790,390 389,731 400,659 (10,928) 49.31% 50.69%
37 783,251 386,641 396,610 (9,969) 49.36% 50.64%
38 771,041 381,358 389,683 (8,325) 49.46% 50.54%
39 752,242 372,465 379,777 (7,312) 49.51% 50.49%
40 729,614 361,764 367,850 (6,086) 49.58% 50.42%
41 700,948 348,247 352,701 (4,454) 49.68% 50.32%
42 690,452 343,179 347,273 (4,094) 49.70% 50.30%
43 682,188 339,493 342,695 (3,202) 49.77% 50.23%
44 657,647 326,729 330,918 (4,189) 49.68% 50.32%
45 633,669 314,532 319,137 (4,605) 49.64% 50.36%
46 619,651 306,903 312,748 (5,845) 49.53% 50.47%
47 627,232 310,687 316,545 (5,858) 49.53% 50.47%
48 617,699 306,273 311,426 (5,153) 49.58% 50.42%
49 613,287 303,604 309,683 (6,079) 49.50% 50.50%
50 616,292 305,520 310,772 (5,252) 49.57% 50.43%
51 638,692 315,797 322,895 (7,098) 49.44% 50.56%
52 659,546 327,228 332,318 (5,090) 49.61% 50.39%
53 715,893 354,973 360,920 (5,947) 49.58% 50.42%
54 752,144 373,842 378,302 (4,460) 49.70% 50.30%
55 577,345 286,093 291,252 (5,159) 49.55% 50.45%
56 596,635 295,882 300,753 (4,871) 49.59% 50.41%
57 575,767 285,742 290,025 (4,283) 49.63% 50.37%
58 548,342 271,670 276,672 (5,002) 49.54% 50.46%
59 487,197 240,090 247,107 (7,017) 49.28% 50.72%
60 462,384 227,604 234,780 (7,176) 49.22% 50.78%
61 491,916 241,652 250,264 (8,612) 49.12% 50.88%
62 487,274 239,145 248,129 (8,984) 49.08% 50.92%
63 481,893 236,833 245,060 (8,227) 49.15% 50.85%
64 468,241 229,215 239,026 (9,811) 48.95% 51.05%
65 454,031 220,784 233,247 (12,463) 48.63% 51.37%
66 439,393 213,043 226,350 (13,307) 48.49% 51.51%
67 420,131 201,919 218,212 (16,293) 48.06% 51.94%
68 419,857 199,973 219,884 (19,911) 47.63% 52.37%
69 420,513 198,930 221,583 (22,653) 47.31% 52.69%
70 419,122 194,774 224,348 (29,574) 46.47% 53.53%
71 404,896 185,767 219,129 (33,362) 45.88% 54.12%
72 387,863 176,305 211,558 (35,253) 45.46% 54.54%
73 370,719 167,065 203,654 (36,589) 45.07% 54.93%
74 366,131 162,882 203,249 (40,367) 44.49% 55.51%
75 354,843 154,914 199,929 (45,015) 43.66% 56.34%
76 338,388 144,505 193,883 (49,378) 42.70% 57.30%
77 325,619 135,882 189,737 (53,855) 41.73% 58.27%
78 313,071 127,434 185,637 (58,203) 40.70% 59.30%
79 313,112 124,552 188,560 (64,008) 39.78% 60.22%
80 311,280 120,137 191,143 (71,006) 38.59% 61.41%
81 285,666 108,859 176,807 (67,948) 38.11% 61.89%
82 184,741 67,379 117,362 (49,983) 36.47% 63.53%
83 157,586 55,567 102,019 (46,452) 35.26% 64.74%
84 166,623 57,016 109,607 (52,591) 34.22% 65.78%
85 156,146 51,134 105,012 (53,878) 32.75% 67.25%
86 150,100 46,897 103,203 (56,306) 31.24% 68.76%
87 129,828 38,823 91,005 (52,182) 29.90% 70.10%
88 110,880 31,787 79,093 (47,306) 28.67% 71.33%
89 91,430 25,219 66,211 (40,992) 27.58% 72.42%
90 and over 315,632 71,182 244,450 (173,268) 22.55% 77.45%
Exciting stuff Cheesy ( for an actuary!)
cheesebeast
11-09-2003, 17:22
Well I figure I've got a good chance of getting laid over in England as there are surplus females all over the place (especially in the 90+ age group).:eek:
Quite surprised to see 51% plus boys and 49% girls up to age about 18 and then the boys start losing it.:rolleyes:
You could always become a bi-sexual. That way your chances would increase somewhat. And by the looks of things a necrophiliac would have a field day.
Seabiscuit
19-09-2003, 16:41
Who said the HKJC doesn't listen? They look like they have been listening to Hobbes' commentary on their soccer betting and now want to get serious by appointing new Trading Managers for soccer betting. Perhaps Hobbes can get the job and show 'em how it is done.
Ad appears in today's Sportsman.
"Our Trading Team is looking for experienced bookmakers to fill the positions of Trading Manager (as opposed to the inexperienced riff raff they have now). As Trading Manager, you should be familiar with fixed odds bookmaking. Most of the bet types offered by the Company are initially fixed-odds ones, such as Home-Away-Draw, Correct Scores, Half-time/Full-time, Total Goals, First goal scorer. Other bet types, including pari-mutuel games and the Asian Handicap will be offered later. A state of the art risk management system will be deployed for the Trading Team to monitor liabilities in real time. As part of the team, you are expected to follow a prudent risk management policy (by offering $10 on $100 shots).
ABOUT YOU
You should have:
- more than five year's of trading experience in well established bookmaking firms;
- proven experience in football betting with deep knowledge of European football;
- a disciplined and analytically rigorous approach to trading;
- experience using risk management software;
- sound commercial judgment backed by high personal integrity.
You must also be prepared to work on shifts around the clock, including weekends and holidays.
Inital 3 year contract up for grabs. Some stuff about who HKJC is.
How to apply
Please send your resume (do bookies have resumes?), complete with expected salary and job reference to:
Email: recruit@hkjc.org.hk
Fax: (852) 2576-1987
Mail: Human Resources Department
HKJC Football Betting Limited
1 Sports Road, Happy Valley
Hong Kong"
zeditave
19-09-2003, 21:06
So that means they are lying to the public when they say they are taking 5% of turnover. They are taking between 11 and 12%.
Just because the markets are set to a margin of 112% does NOT mean they are taking 12% profit on turnover - all depends on where the action is, even if they don't move the odds. Balanced books for fixed-odds bookies are as rare as hen's teeth.
Quite surprised to see 51% plus boys and 49% girls up to age about 18 and then the boys start losing it
stuns me a bit with the extremity but do you know a goodly part of the reason CB??
Zeditave you are correct of course but it is common usage to refer to the house edge or vigorish in that fashion.
anyway the HKJC edge is probably greater than that given the speed with which they cut the odds out of "fear of losing" paranoia.
cheesebeast
19-09-2003, 23:49
stuns me a bit with the extremity but do you know a goodly part of the reason CB??
No I am clueless Hobbes, please enlighten me - I can only guess at one or several forms of mortality for the males? But the 51% certainly seems a very strong trend.
Surprised that the JC are advertising these positions now, one would have thought they would have been on board from day one unless their turnover levels are higher than anticipated which is a bit difficult to gauge but perhaps unlikely.
Could it be because quite a lot of men were killed in the 2nd World War and so there's such a large discrepancy among the higher age groups?
cheesebeast
20-09-2003, 14:19
On reflection I decided 18+ was the age blokes start getting girlfriends and hence start slowly getting hen-pecked to an early death?
A story the other day on the news was all about how the male sex hormone caused higher rates of nasty things ( mainly to do with the heart and cholesterol). In effect males are designed by nature to drop dead at an earlier age.
cheesebeast
21-09-2003, 22:35
Plenty of liquidity on BF soccer Man Utd v Arsenal GBP68,000 available to back at 2-16, GBP54,000 available to lay @ 2-18. Total matched GBP1,060,000 1/2 hour b4 kick-off.
from around 16 to 25 a far higher proportion of males die in car accidents -- across many western countries. ( enough to distort the % of m / f ratio but as i said the numbers below seem extreme ).
for the arsenal milan game GBP1.5M+ was matched before kickoff.
cheesebeast
26-09-2003, 20:27
This might inspire you to bet on football?
http://www.ifilm.com/filmdetail?ifilmid=2450846
Click on the "Play 200K Free" Link left hand side and middle of screen, above "Info".
You have to watch through a trailer advertising some other movie before you get to the good stuff.
Has there been any news or clues about the state of the HKJC's football betting operation?
cheesebeast
01-11-2003, 22:33
Haven't seen anything in the SCMP re the HKJC football betting Scarper.
Here's some UK football ratings. don't know if they're any good.
http://www.forde1977.freeserve.co.uk/ratings.html
cheesebeast
05-11-2003, 18:28
Arsenal v Dynamo Kiev tonight
HKJC prices
Arsenal 1-35
Draw 4-50
Kiev 6-00 :mad: :mad: This was actually 5-00 about an hour ago
Betfair prices
Arsenal 1-43
Draw 5-00
Kiev 9-60 :D :D
Here's another website with probabilities on European leagues, no idea if they're any good - need to register for free to access.
http://www.betdevil.com
cheesebeast
12-11-2003, 11:53
Courtesy SCMP
ON THE RAILS
Soccer bets being given pride of place
ALAN AITKEN
What was almost a throw-away comment by executive director of racing Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges on last Saturday's turnover at rainy Sha Tin makes us wonder what effect soccer betting is having on racing, especially with new football products in the offing.
Although Engelbrecht-Bresges frequently puts forward wet weather as causing an automatic 10 per cent drop in betting turnover, he said that the turnover fall might also have had something to do with the soccer betting. If he is right, then the day's results were a twisted kind of win, being down only 9 per cent with two negatives impacting on it. But you have to wonder how much attention is now being placed on soccer betting at the expense of the core product.
Betting odds displays for racing are not as prominent as those for soccer betting - soon after the last race on racedays, the soccer odds pop up on television screens. And in the club's betting shops, soccer odds are constantly on display and racing odds get air time only during racing.
Last week's debacle with the Hong Kong Jockey Club's sponsored race from the Melbourne Cup meeting highlights the need for some rethinking about how some of the race betting events are presented. For one thing, why is the club so dependent on free-to-air telecasts?
The club in Melbourne, which conducts the Melbourne Cup card, changed the starting time of the Hong Kong Jockey Club Plate after the Jockey Club had already booked its telecast - meaning the race would not be shown at all when the new starting schedule took it outside the booking time. It was small money involved in betting on the Australian race, but surely the club would want to do a better job than that with use of a more dedicated medium like cable TV or its own in-house systems.
And the same is true of odds-displays to off course shops. The betting shops contribute a large proportion of the club's turnover, so anything which hampers their service will hamper turnover and it is in those shops where the real battle between the club's soccer and race betting will be fought. Because soccer betting is new and everything has been created from scratch, all the problems of odds display and so on are addressed up front.
Because racing has been around forever, faults in the system are not addressed, which is bizarre since racing will provide a much better return than soccer. The soccer betting products have not been ideal, but expansion into handicap wagering is nigh, and perhaps that will present a stronger competitor.
cheesebeast
05-12-2003, 23:03
Not a bad goal .....
What a goal (http://www.ajax.nl/show/id=4407/dbid=101/typeofpage=1823/frameid=104298/dbid=101/frameworkid=104296/typeofpage=1823/mdquality=high/contentid=32357)
cheesebeast
14-12-2003, 23:01
£1.83 mill matched Arsenal v Fulham tonight, BF still going strong. Only 3 EPL games tonight hence plenty of betting, I think from earlier in this thread such a game may have matched about £1 mill if on a Saturday, but perhaps the market is still growing?
cheesebeast
12-01-2004, 13:45
This looks like the new bet type the JC are running for football to rival the Triple Trio.
Predict the Half Time (45 mins) and Full Time (90 mins) Home/ Away/Draw results of six matches. One set of 6 HaFu matches is selected and defined by HKJC Football.
6 HaFu is the first pari-mutuel football bet type. Dividend for each winning bet is determined by the total investment in the pool and the number of winning units. The larger the betting pool, the higher the dividend.
There are 9 selections in each leg. ¡E H-H ¡E H-D ¡E H-A
¡E D-H ¡E D-D ¡E D-A
¡E A-H ¡E A-D ¡E A-A
cheesebeast
12-01-2004, 21:30
Launching on Jan 13th with a starting pool of $1 mill.
http://www.hkjcfootball.com/sb/english/special/2004_fb_6hafu/6hafu.asp
Anuone got an idea of how much the HKJC are turning over on the soccer these days? And is there take effectively 13%? IS this still all on the favorite side?
cheesebeast
15-01-2004, 11:28
Haven't seen anything in the press re turnover.
Here's a bit more info on the new bet, 6HaFu.
Courtesy The Standard HK
Six bet to score with fans
Teddy Ng
The Hong Kong Jockey Club has raised football betting to a new level with the introduction of a new bet with unlimited dividends and a special HK$1 million jackpot for the inaugural pool.
The 6HaFu bet, as it is called, came under immediate criticism from several sections including one gambling watchdog which said it would only entice more young gamblers.
The new bet will kick off on Tuesday.
To bet on the 6HaFu one must predict the half-time (45 minutes) and full-time (90 minutes) results of six matches.
One set of 6HaFu matches is selected by the Jockey Club each week.
Jockey Club acting head of betting services Gilbert Cheng said the dividend for each winning bet would be determined by the total investment in the pool and the number of winning units.
Six English matches were nominated for the inaugural pool next Saturday - Bolton vs Portsmouth/ Everton vs Charlton/ Manchester City vs Blackburn/ Middlesbrough vs Leicester/ Southampton vs Leeds/ Tottenham vs Liverpool - and punters can start placing their bets from Tuesday.
Cheng said the Jockey Club had set aside a HK$1 million jackpot for the first pool.
If the winning combination was not backed, any jackpot and the net pool would snowball on to the next 6HaFu.
The jackpot allocated to a certain pool would also be credited to the next, should one or more of the nominated matches become void.
If all six matches became void, all bets would be refunded, and any jackpot credited to the next pool.
The Jockey Club would take 25 per cent as commission from the jackpot. A further 6per cent of the remaining jackpot would be kept in reserve.
Cheng said he was confident the new betting type would become popular as the number of winning combinations were small.
The probability of winning this betting type is one in 530,000, while the probability of winning a Triple Trio in horse racing is one in 50 million and that for the Mark Six is one in 13 million.
The Jockey Club will also re-launch its football website on Monday, to include an online radio giving information on football betting, racing and Mark Six.
Gambling watchdog Industrial Evangelism Fellowship deputy general secretary Poon Yan-chi said more youngsters would be attracted to gambling because of the 6HaFu.
Caritas Lok Hang Club supervisor Joe Tang said the organisation had given counselling to 150 gamblers since October 15. ``I predict that more youngsters who do not now gamble will be attracted,'' he said.
Meanwhile, democrat legislator James To yesterday raised concerns at a meeting of the Legislative Council's home affairs panel at the number of people who had turned to football gambling since it was legalised.
``Some housewives, and even the elderly, are betting on their favourite teams like Manchester United because the odds and winning chances appear more attractive to them,'' he said.
``In horse racing, you choose one from 14 horses, while in football games, you pick one of two teams.''
Secretary for Home Affairs Patrick Ho said the government had assigned an independent group to routinely study the gambling trend.
But To said such studies were meaningless unless the government also had the courage to scrap legalised football betting if it was in the interests of society to do so.
``It now appears that the government is promoting gambling. Some of the new gamblers are not pathological as yet, but who knows what the future holds,'' To said.
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/thestandard/news_detail_frame.cfm?articleid=44562&intcatid=1
This 6HaFu sounds tasty , especially early when not many people will know what to do ?
Good luck to all that have a go.
cheesebeast
16-01-2004, 19:03
The inaugural "6 HaFu" football betting pool, which is taking bets until 10:50pm Saturday evening, will give out a total dividend of at least $2.2 million, as at 6pm Friday, if there is only one single unit bet ($10) with the winning combination of Half Time and Full Time result of the six nominated matches.
Anyone got an idea of how much the HKJC are turning over on the soccer these days? And is there take effectively 13%? IS this still all on the favorite side?
firstly no. the take is more like 11% but due to the fav / longshot bias the disadvantage may be less than that if betting on the fav, but i suspect most of their action would be on favourites.
anyone like to hazard a guess as to the size of the new pool for this 6HaFu bet.
i think historically new pools on racing have started off big and declined with time ??
cheesebeast
17-01-2004, 22:41
According to HKJC Football website new investment for the 6HaFu is $5,595,122 which is not too bad considering it's the first one and awareness would still be fairly low.
Shame they didn't put the Wolves v Man Utd match on the ticket as was a huge upset with Wolves winning at 13-1.
cheesebeast
18-01-2004, 00:02
Using BF prices the all up payout for $10 would have been $748K so will be interesting to see what the JC dividend is with their 25% takeout and 6% rainy day money.
cheesebeast
18-01-2004, 07:24
How about that, no winner, jackpot!
cheesebeast
24-01-2004, 17:58
Football: Highbury clash sets new Betfair record
Published: 22/01/2004 (Sports Betting)
STEVE PALMER
THE Carling Cup semi-final first leg between Arsenal and Middlesbrough at Highbury on Tuesday night saw a punting frenzy on Betfair with a record pounds 4,659,061 matched on the game.
The match itself was a tame affair, with Boro midfielder Juninho scoring the only goal, but fervent speculation about how strong the Arsenal team would be during the build-up to the north London clash saw Betfair clients trading like there was no tomorrow.
Tuesday morning saw a real plunge on Boro at a high of 7 on the exchange and a sustained gamble throughout the day on the visitors resulted in them trading at as low as 4.3 as the 7.45pm kick-off approached.
Arsenal were matched at 1.41 for pounds 100 when the market on the game first opened, but the Gunners had drifted to 2.06 by the time Arsene Wenger handed in a team-sheet including a number of relative unknowns.
Betfair spokesman Tony Calvin said: "The football match markets on here are usually pretty static - they change only by fractions - but the prices for this game were all over the place. I can't remember a team drifting as much as Arsenal did."
Betfair matched more than pounds 3.5m before kick-off and Calvin believes they would have gone past the pounds 5m mark for the game if there had been more goal action.
"It wasn't a very interesting game," he added.
"Had it been a real ding-dong 3-3 thriller, like Boro's game against Leicester on Saturday, turnover could have gone through the roof."
The previous trading record for a match on Betfair was the pounds 4.3m that changed hands for the Champions League group stage encounter between Manchester United and Juventus last February. This was another game where the build-up was centred around the possibility of a severely weakened team - Juve were flu-
ravaged and begged Uefa for a postponement.
West Brom against Arsenal in December traded pounds 3.15m in match odds alone and Calvin said: "That was another game where all the talk beforehand was of what team Wenger would pick - there is something about team news that seems to get punters going."
Ladbrokes yesterday cut Barcelona from 4-7 to 1-2 for tonight's Copa del Rey quarter-final first leg against Real Zaragoza. Barca will be looking for more from new signing Edgar Davids, who made a disappointing debut in the 1-1 draw with Athletic Bilbao on Saturday.
Alaves, the only Second
Division side left in the competition, meet an out-of-sorts Celta Vigo in the night's other quarter-final.
Betting on tonight's Coppa Italia second leg between Roma and Milan is fraught with danger as reliable team news is thin on the ground.
Lawrie Sanchez was yesterday announced as the new Northern Ireland manager. Bet365 make the team 500-1 to win World Cup Qualifying Group Six and 5,000 to win the Cup outright.
cheesebeast
24-01-2004, 18:02
Is this the new face of football coupons?
Published: 16/01/2004 (Sports Betting) Bruce Millington
A REVOLUTIONARY new football coupon that enables punters to back and lay teams and draws hits the shops this weekend.
And hopes are high that it could one day replace the existing coupon as shop customers start to get the same freedom to oppose or support teams that betting exchange clients enjoy.
Super Soccer's back-and-lay coupon will be available in the 2,000 independent shops under the ownership of its 600 subscribers.
And a similar coupon is being trial-led in around a quarter of the Tote's outlets from next weekend.
At first glance, the Super Soccer
innovation looks similar to a traditional long list, but with two columns of prices rather than one by the home team the away team and the draw.
The win price is on the left and the lose price is on the right. Clearly, there is an awareness of the need to avoid confusion among customers, and Sup-er Soccer and the Tote use different ways to mark up the new coupons.
To back a team on the Super
Soccer list, punters should use the
traditional 1, 2, X method, while to
oppose teams they should circle the 1, 2 or X. The Tote's sheet differs in that 1Y should be used to back a home team and 1N to oppose them.
The advantage of the coupon is that it allows punters to oppose teams in multiples, a facility that has only just
become available on Betfair now that they offer a limited selection of weekend accumulators.
Super Soccer have excluded Scottish Divisions One, Two and Three and imposed a minimum trebles rule,
although the Tote's coupon will permit singles and upwards.
Martin Wilson of Super Soccer said: "The problem with offering singles is that we just become a haven for arb-hunters. If, for instance, we are 5-2 a team not to win and that team can be backed at 11-4 to win on Betfair, we are obviously sitting ducks.
"That is not the point of the new coupon. We believe it is only right that punters can oppose teams as well as backing them, and hopefully this is a good way of hitting back at Betfair.
"I'd like to think this has the scope to become the standard long list in years to come and we also intend to extend the back-and-lay philosophy into every sport we price up."
The Tote are opting for a low-key introduction to their innovation, and the firm's Nick Straney believes
increased price changes could be a big factor for shop staff.
"If we change one price, we have to change six," he said. "And as we are offering singles we could well be changing prices more frequently than normal. But we are hoping the new coupon proves extremely popular and we look forward to seeing what the initial feedback is."
Bet365 have been offering not-to-win prices on Premiership and live football matches over the past month and are encouraged by the response.
They have a new coupon of their own, although this is less extensive than the other two.
Bet365's Steve Freeth said: "We have been delighted with the popularity of laying teams."
very surprised at this
one winner
not sure of actual odds but guessing close to 3 million to 1 against
Yeah NO value in that pool!!!!!
cheesebeast
24-02-2004, 21:44
Man Utd @ 8-80 to win the Champions league must be a decent lay if they're struggling to get past Wolves and Leeds in the EPL?
cheesebeast
01-03-2004, 20:51
Biggest ever jackpot for ''6 HaFu'' 1 March 2004
Having just paid a record dividend to a half-unit bet (a unit bet is $10) winner last Sunday, the ''6 HaFu'' football betting pool is expecting to rewrite the record investment of $11.04 million this week as a jackpot of over $6.47 million is carried over to the next pool scheduled for Saturday, 6 March.
Six matches, including three English, two German and one Spanish, have been nominated for the pool, betting on which will start at 12noon Tuesday (2 March) until 8:20pm Saturday evening. The pool is expected to give a single-unit bet winner a total dividend as much as $15 million.
Customers* must fill in the match number (SAT 1) for the first leg between Manchester Utd and Fulham before choosing combinations of Half Time and Full Time results of the six matches.
'6 HaFu'' Nominated Matches:
Leg Match No. Match
1st Leg SAT 1 Manchester Utd vs Fulham
2nd Leg Dortmund vs Stuttgart
3rd Leg Leverkusen vs Bayern Munich
4th Leg Birmingham vs Bolton
5th Leg Portsmouth vs Arsenal
6th Leg Valencia vs Deportivo
cheesebeast
01-04-2004, 17:39
From the Racing Post
Miles quits Ladbrokes to take up HKJC position
by Jim Cremin
COLIN MILES, Ladbrokes’ influential trading director since 1984, and who would have been with the company 42 years in August, is leaving in June to take up a consultancy role with the Hong Kong Jockey Club.
Mike O’Kane, currently Ladbrokes’ operationsdirector, is to take on Miles’s
position and become a main board director.
Chris Bell, Ladbrokes Worldwide’s chief executive, announced the surprise news to staff. He said: “Colin started with Ladbrokes at the age of 16, working his way to the top of his chosen career. He has made a tremendous contribution to Ladbrokes during his long years of service, and I am sure that everyone joins me in wishing both Colin and his wife Paulette good luck and the very best of health in their new adventure.”
Miles, who is Ladbrokes’ longest standing employee, as well as a direct link to the rapid expansion of the company under his mentor, Cyril Stein, started in 1962.
“Betting shops had been legalised in 1961, and 40 years later I’ve been part of a most
extraordinary Ladbrokes story,” Miles said on Tuesday. “I’m 58, two years from retirement, and it’s rather nice at this age to get such an adventure.”
He is to head up the HKJC’s football operation, and act as an adviser on racing matters.
Hong Kong has made betting exchanges illegal and started its own fixed-odds football betting, which is reputedly booming. As with horseracing, profits go to charities.
Miles added: “I share the integrity concerns relating to exchanges, and believe Hong Kong has acted wisely. The HKJC was interested in my experience in risk management, and I was one of Ladbrokes’ original football odds-compilers when tax changed nearly 30 years ago from the punitive pools betting duty.”
http://www.racingpost.co.uk/horses/?MIval=rp_std_page&psection=racingpost.co.uk&page=top20
fixed-odds football betting, which is reputedly booming.
v interesting.
cheesebeast
30-04-2004, 19:08
New bet types for Euro to challenge illegal bookies 30 April 2004
To divert illegal bets into the legalized channel, the HKJC Football Betting Ltd will offer five tournament-specific bet types for the quadrennial European Championship to be held in June. This will strengthen competitiveness of its betting package.
''The illegal football gambling market has expanded remarkably during the previous two versions of the tournament and the 2002 World Cup,'' said Mr Henry Chan, Executive Director, Betting of the Hong Kong Jockey Club. ''Through the offering of a competitive option, the Club hopes to see a curb on the further expansion of the illegal market.''
The five tournament-based bet types include:
1. Champion (Fixed Odds)
To bet on the winner of the championship
2. Group Winner (Fixed Odds)
To bet on the top team in all the four groups
3. Group Forecast (Fixed Odds)
To bet on the top two teams in correct order in all the four groups
4. Top Scorer (Fixed Odds)
To bet on the top scorer of the tournament from a list of players offered
5. ''8 HaFu'' (Pari-mutuel)
An enlarged version of the existing ''6 HaFu'' pool, with the number of selected matches increased to eight from six. There will be a pool for each of the three rounds of the group matches (see attached table). Bets with correct combinations of Half Time and Full Time results of the eight matches will share the dividend. In case of no winner in the first pool, the Jackpot will be credited to the final pool. Any accumulated Jackpot from the first two pools will be shared among winners of the third pool according to designated priorities.
A convenient Quick Pick ticket, which contains two computer drawn combinations of Half Time and Full Time results for the eight matches, is also available at $20 each.
''The betting package for Euro, comprising the ongoing games plus four popular fixed-odds bet types and a pari-mutuel ''8 HaFu'' pool, would be attractive enough to punters who are interested in Euro,'' said Mr Chan.
Detail selling arrangements and betting odds will be announced in late May.
Selected Matches for the ''8 HaFu'' pools:
Match No. Group Match
1st Pool SAT 1 ‚` Portugal vs Greece@
‚` Spain vs Russia
‚a Switzerland vs Croatia
‚a France vs England
‚b Denmark vs Italy
‚b Sweden vs Bulgaria
‚c Czech Republic vs Latvia
‚c Germany vs Netherlands
2nd Pool WED 9 ‚` Greece vs Spain
‚` Russia vs Portugal
‚a England vs Switzerland
‚a Croatia vs France
‚b Bulgaria vs Denmark
‚b Italy vs Sweden
‚c Latvia vs Germany
‚c Netherlands vs Czech Republic
3rd Pool SUN 17 ‚` Spain vs Portugal
‚` Russia vs Greece
‚a Switzerland vs France
‚a Croatia vs England
‚b Italy vs Bulgaria
‚b Denmark vs Sweden
‚c Netherlands vs Latvia
‚c Germany vs Czech Republic
* No person under the age of 18 is allowed to place a bet.
http://www.hkjcfootball.com/sb/english/news/news20040430_02.asp
cheesebeast
16-05-2004, 00:09
Arsenal have just come from 1-0 down to beat Leicester 2-1 and so remain unbeaten for the EPL season - first time since 1880 approx that this has been achieved when there were only some 15 teams in the league - top effort! Go Arsene Wenger, Henry, Pires, Viera, Campbell and co.
cheesebeast
09-07-2004, 15:48
Courtesy South China Morning Post
Major upsets in Euro 2004 and other tournaments have pushed profits from legalised soccer betting higher than expected.
The Hong Kong Jockey Club has made $3.3 billion in gross profits - on $16.1 billion of soccer betting turnover - since it became legal 11 months ago.
The profit margin was 20 per cent - double what executives had expected - thanks to punters who bet on favourite teams that ended up losing.
"Because of the unusual results in the four European leagues as well as Champions League and Euro 2004, this made the profit margin look better," Jockey Club chairman Ronald Arculli said yesterday.
Upsets in Euro 2004 included losses by the Czech Republic and France to Greece, one of the least-favoured teams in the tournament. The figures, calculated up to June 30, didn't include the final.
The Jockey Club will have to split its profits with the government, paying $1.65 billion in betting duty and $84 million in profits tax. The payments are within the government's expectation of $1.8 billion in annual revenue from soccer betting.
However, the betting turnover of $16.1 billion for the first 11 months of soccer betting fell short of the $20 billion to $40 billion estimate for the full year. Soccer betting was legalised in August to combat illegal bookmakers.
But critics claim legalisation has further promoted gambling and could create social problems.
"The more money the Jockey Club makes means more citizens are being harmed," said Hong Kong Gambling Watch convenor Wong Hak-lim. "We hope [the government] will use the money for preventive and counselling services."
The Jockey Club has committed $60 million over the five years of its licence to conduct soccer betting to pay for counselling services for people with gambling problems.
But Mr Arculli could not say yesterday whether legalisation had helped beat illegal bookies.
"That question could be better answered by the government," he said. "I feel the results are not bad but ... it's very difficult to eliminate illegal bookmakers."
Moses Cheng Mo-chi, chairman of the government-appointed Football Betting and Lotteries Commission, said he was pleased to see bets being made legally.
http://www.scmp.com/topnews/ZZZOC78PDVD.html
Crikey , not a bad first season .
cheesebeast
11-07-2004, 14:50
A level playing field for bettors?
Grant Clark Bloomberg News
Sunday, July 04, 2004
Soccer tournament fuels calls to legalize gambling on sports
Yeo Tee Kiat, a 24-year-old auditor in Singapore, has stayed up late watching Euro 2004 soccer matches live from Portugal for the past three weeks. Gambling on the games helps keep him awake.
"I was up all night," Yeo said the morning after Portugal eliminated England in the June 24 quarterfinal. "The betting keeps me interested."
The three-week European Championship ending Sunday is fueling Asia's multibillion-dollar passion for soccer gambling. Yeo, who bet through the government-owned Singapore Pools, is among a minority of Asian fans with the option of wagering legally in a region where most governments ban sports betting.
Gamblers in the region place at least $1 billion in illegal soccer bets each week, and as much as twice that during Euro 2004, according to Betfair of Britain, the world's biggest betting exchange.
That means billions of dollars in lost revenue for governments and legitimate bookmakers, said Tim Levene, 31, Betfair's managing director for Asia.
"Prohibition isn't working," Levene said in a telephone interview from London. "It's an unbelievably attractive market and we want a small proportion of this enormous pie."
Gamblers in Thailand, where soccer betting is illegal, will spend 33 billion baht, or $806 million, during the Euro 2004 tournament, according to a survey by Kasikorn Research Center, a unit of Kasikornbank, the country's third-largest lender.
That's 10 percent more than during the 2002 World Cup, which was played in South Korea and Japan.
Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra of Thailand says he may end a ban that is creating billions of baht in revenue for underground bookmakers. He said last week that he wanted to provide a legal alternative that would generate tax receipts and curb criminal activity. He did not give a time frame.
Illegal gambling "is difficult to stop because they can do it over the phone or with credit cards without cash changing hands," Thaksin told reporters outside Government House. "The gambler is like someone addicted to opium."
Efforts to legalize gambling may face political hurdles. Last month, Thaksin had to scrap plans to hold a lottery to fund the government's purchase of a stake in the Liverpool Football Club after opponents said that encouraging the public to gamble was against Buddhist principles.
Gambling bans mean that legitimate bookmakers such as William Hill, the second-biggest British betting chain, are losing opportunities to expand in Asia, said David Harding, the company's chief executive.
"Wherever betting is outlawed there's usually a thriving illegal market, whether it's run by organized crime or in the café down the road," Harding, 48, said in an interview.
Even in places where soccer betting is legal, underground bookmakers still proliferate by offering better odds, Levene of Betfair said.
In Hong Kong, which opened its first legal soccer-betting service last year, unauthorized bookies still take in as much as 50 billion Hong Kong dollars, or $6.4 billion, a year, said Ronald Arculli, chairman of the Hong Kong Jockey Club, which oversees legal sports betting in the city. That compares with about 40 billion dollars in annual soccer-betting revenue for the Jockey Club, Arculli said.
Though more than half of Hong Kong's soccer-betting proceeds still go to underground bookmakers, legal soccer betting is reaping billions of dollars in revenue that the government would otherwise lose, Arculli said.
"We have a wonderful model in Hong Kong in terms of the benefit going to the government," he said in a May interview with Bloomberg Television.
Harding at William Hill says Hong Kong has not opened its soccer-betting market enough to curb illegal bookmakers - or to generate revenue for legitimate companies.
The state-controlled Jockey Club is Hong Kong's only operator of betting shops. Internet soccer-betting services are also off-limits to bookmakers other than the Jockey Club.
The government barred them from providing online services to Hong Kong residents when it started its own soccer-betting business last year.
"Our market share has diminished significantly," said Harding at William Hill. "All this does is push the betting to the illegal bookmakers."
Hong Kong's government enforces the online ban by ordering banks not to process betting transactions on local credit cards, he said.
Levene at Betfair said the company was lobbying the authorities in Hong Kong and Singapore - as well as Thailand and Malaysia, where there is no legal soccer betting - to allow its Internet-based bookmaking service.
The Asian Football Confederation, which oversees the sport in the region, is also calling on Asian governments to end soccer-betting bans and crack down on illegal operations that have led to match-fixing scandals in countries including Malaysia and Vietnam.
"It's in the interest of these countries to eliminate illegal betting on football and legalize gambling," Peter Velappan, the confederation's general secretary, said in a statement.
Yeo, the Singaporean fan, had to tear up a betting slip worth 10 Singapore dollars, or $5.83, after Portugal failed to beat England in regular time in Lisbon. Even so, he said he appreciated the chance to bet legally since Singapore allowed soccer gambling two years ago.
"People used to bet among friends or through some other avenues," he said. "This is really good. We're doing it the legal way."
Bloomberg News
http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?file=527478.html
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