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hobbes
22-04-2002, 22:49
Monday September 11 2000
Hong Kong Jockey Club needs to ease concerns of punting public by answering the $70 million question
Lawrence Wadey
What the punters want to know is, where did the interest on the $70 million go? Indeed where did the interest go on the money the Hong Kong Jockey Club was deducting at a rate of five per cent per Triple Trio pool throughout last season and what will happen to the interest this time around?
Few issues have prompted so many inquiries from big and small punters alike. When questioned after the final meeting of last season, the Jockey Club's executive director of betting, Henry Chan, stated the Club had some $50 million in reserve and that he didn't know what was going to happen to the interest accruing through the summer break on this vast sum.
Since his public statements there has been correspondence on this very matter which is more than worth repeating in this column. The writer is convinced that the true figure in reserve was not the $50 million Chan stated (though it must be stressed he was put on the spot and replying in all good faith and to the best of his knowledge), but more like $70 million.
The writer's figures endorse his argument as the total TT turnover was $2,671 million. As the five per cent deduction is net of the 24 per cent the Jockey Club deducts from the TT pool then the calculation is $2,671 million multiplied by 3.8 per cent (which is five per cent minus the Jockey Club's 24 per cent) and this comes to $101.5 million.
The Jockey Club's intention was to boost pools to around $30 million and they did this three times when there was already $20 million in the jackpot. Thus they used $30 million from the $101.5 million appropriated from punters and this leaves $70 million.
To a large extent the actual figure, $50 million or $70 million is somewhat academic. The more substantive point is what happens to the interest on what is punters' money, what ever the size of the reserve pool? It doesn't seem to be going back into the TT reserve pool and there is surely a pressing argument that it should. It is punters' money and not the Club's.
Even if the Jockey Club disagree on this argument from a policy point of view, it would be a valuable public-relations exercise, such has been the level of public disquiet on this matter, if a statement was released from the betting department to state what happens to the interest and why.
There was a further spate of closing of telebet accounts during early August and this time it appears to have had virtually nothing to do with the so-called computer teams. Rather it seems to have been a matter of residency and whether those betting from overseas were winners or losers.
Of the four overseas punters of which I have direct knowledge, the three that had their accounts closed were modestly successful. The one whose account remains open is a fun punter who is modestly unsuccessful.
The reason stated in the letters from the telebet administration manager, Grace Ma, was that telebet services are intended for use in Hong Kong only and the accounts closed as 'you are living overseas according to your address registered in our records'.
Yet these telebet accounts holders had been betting away for a number of years and had never pretended otherwise.
The very success of Hong Kong racing has been its cosmopolitan nature, from the jockeys to the trainers to the horses to the punters and the journalists.
To pursue this kind of policy only serves to give the Jockey Club adverse publicity. It also smacks once again of the kind of behaviour more usually associated with British bookmakers, namely sure you can bet with us but make sure you're a loser. It is the antithesis of how a Pari-Mutual operation should behave.
it seems the JC is very loathe to give up the funds they accumulate from the 5% deduction to provide the $30m jackpots.
it would be interesting to get an accurate answer as to how much they have available for such jackpots AND how much interest has accumulated over the years ( i believe they did agree to pay interest on the accumulated funds ).

Scarper
22-04-2002, 23:50
YES - i wanted to get the answer to exactly how much TT cash they are holding.
From memory they havent put as much into the $30m TT as they should have every season.
anyone know the date that they did boost the JP to $30 ?????
99/00 TT T/O was about $2680m so this gives 134m available for jackpots.
i can only remeber a maximum of 3 in a season so im guessing there is planty left over!!!
will have a look at other seasons.
[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Scarper ]

hobbes
22-04-2002, 23:57
i think they did run it down to close to zero at the end of last season but it seems unless they are nagged about it they like to keep it in their back pocket.
can anyone confirm they did agree to credit the fund with interest accruing ?? :D :mad: :D :mad: :D :mad:

victor
23-04-2002, 17:59
Up to now of this season,the Club only used the reserve once, it's 16 Dec 2001. They put $38m into the TT pool.
Last season, 5 times,11 Oct($30m),17 Dec ($30m),
7 Apr($38m), 20 May($38m),and 17 Jun($38m).

Flea
23-04-2002, 18:24
38M or 30M???
Victor,
I do remember that it seemed as if the extra was the full 38M as thought I would have been unlikely to miss a 8M carry forward - if so then was the first set of 38M on the 7th Apr?

corkey boy
23-04-2002, 23:32
Masun, do any of the Chinese newspapers highlight these issues ??
As there is seemingly bad blood between the HKJC and the media, something like this would only fuel the fire you'd think.

masun
23-04-2002, 23:59
I have not noticed this topic being discussed in Chinese newspapers. However, in the latest book by Ma Koon Mei, vol. 11 of "Secrets of the Invinicible Horse God", the issue is raised. (For the uninitiated, Horse God is Robert Moore.) I believe some of the forum members here have ties to Chinese media and maybe they can alert their friends of this issue.

victor
24-04-2002, 02:12
Hello Masun,
Could you please say something about the book you mention and your comments. Thank you.

hobbes
24-04-2002, 08:00
However, in the latest book by Ma Koon Mei, vol. 11 of "Secrets of the Invincible Horse God"
Vol 11 ??? say what ??? and "horse god " -- megalomaniac would be more like it.
victor how would you like to comment on both the points corkey boy raises below ??

masun
24-04-2002, 09:45
Victor, it is a series of books by a self-proclaimed disciple of Robert Moore. The books are a mixture of fact and fiction. The author purports to offer a behind-the-scene look of the methods used by HK’s leading syndicates. If the author is to be believed, he spends a lot of time drinking with his buddies the American Computer Genius, the Australian Casino Tycoon & the kiwi “Three Kings & One Queen” – heads of the leading syndicates in HK – learning from them the secrets of horse racing. ;) ;) ;)

Flea
24-04-2002, 17:36
Sounds like he's in cloud cuckoo land! I assume these books sell pretty well if he is up to vol 11. Any idea how many each issue sells?

masun
24-04-2002, 19:04
I have no idea how many books have been sold. Incredible as it may sound, the books are in fact better than the other Chinese books in the market in that they at least try to introduce the fundamentals of handicapping and lead punters away from conspiracy theories.
It's a sad fact that in spite of the huge volume of betting in HK, there are very few Chinese books, not to mention good ones, on horse racing. I'd think there should be a market for such books. When I watch the TV talkback programs, the punters who call in are often quite knowledgeable about racing. For example, many of them understand pace perfectly well. So it's not as if local punters are still a superstitious lot betting on number 8 and avoiding number 4 any more. So if someone is going to publish a good book on horse racing, I'd think there would be enough people willing to fork out good money to buy it.
A money making idea for Alan Aitken of SCMP. Perhaps he can get together with a Chinese colleague to do a Chinese version of his "Hats in the Ring".

Mr Crapola
24-04-2002, 22:29
If Alan Akin were to republish his book it should be called HATS "takes it" IN THE RING after he managed to slide his way into the winning photo of Juene King Prawns victory in the Champions Mile last Sun. (just joking).
Still, he's doing a great job at SCMP, having a go at the jockey club when its warranted but also praising where possible as well.
Nick Pulford is a nice bloke but for all the stories he's written lately you'd think he's lost his keyboard or something. Either that or its one hell of a cramp he's suffering from at present.

the mad mafoo
24-04-2002, 23:33
If those Jockey Club twits don't tip in some of this slush fund to kick-start a big jackpot near the end of the season we should storm the HQ and throw burning torches !!!

masun
24-04-2002, 23:37
throw burning torches
MM, why burning torches? What's wrong with the stuff you shovel everyday?

hobbes
25-04-2002, 00:46
ROTFL @ masun.
Still, he's doing a great job at SCMP, having a go at the jockey club when its warranted but also praising where possible as well.
say what -- either you are a mate of hats or one of his many aliases. i don't think he is critical enough of the JC ( albeit i do think they do most things quite well ) >> should put the "boot" in more often.

hobbes
15-05-2002, 13:58
it seems the JC is very loathe to give up the funds they accumulate from the 5% deduction to provide the $30m jackpots.
it would be interesting to get an accurate answer as to how much they have available for such jackpots AND how much interest has accumulated over the years ( i believe they did agree to pay interest on the accumulated funds ).

Homer J.
16-05-2002, 02:01
The Club is ready to top up each TT jackpot on 25 May, 1 June, 9 June and 16 June to $20 million, offering racegoers great opportunities to bag an enormous TT dividend four weekends in a row.
Take the Super Weekend race meeting on 25 May as an example, if no jackpot on 19 May is carried over to the day's TT pool, the Club will draw $20 million from TT Jackpot Reserve to make up that day's jackpot. In this case, the dividend for a single $10 bet on that day may pay up to $60 million, and the total amount of TT dividends over the four Super Weekend race meetings could top $200 million! Aren't these opportunities too good to miss?

don scott
16-05-2002, 02:59
Looks like the Club keeps all the reserve for the moment to compete with the world cup.

shaved
16-05-2002, 06:01
They could have done more, but still, it's welcome news.

hobbes
16-05-2002, 20:27
DS it wouldn't have crossed my mind to do it that way to compete with the WC but it does have some logic to it.
The Club is ready to top up each TT jackpot on 25 May, 1 June, 9 June and 16 June to $20 million, offering racegoers great opportunities to bag an enormous TT dividend four weekends in a row.
there is an $8m j/pot this sunday so if it does not go off they would not have to add the $20m for one ( or more ) of the ensuing mtgs but i guess they could switch to the wed night mtgs.

shapke
16-05-2002, 23:07
Hobbes, on a personal note, re your posting signoff: I'm getting desperate to give that thing on the outside with the white cap a whack around the arse. It looms up like Tweet but 1,000,000 times a day!
________
LIVE SEX WEBSHOWS (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

hobbes
16-05-2002, 23:47
wouldn't want to do anything to interfer with your sanity shapke so how about this ?? :D :p :D

hobbes
17-05-2002, 05:19
Thursday, May 16, 2002 Trio's $20 million lure for punters
ANTOINE SO
The Jockey Club will top up each of its Triple Trio jackpots by $20 million during the World Cup, to lure punters who might be tempted to bet illegally.
A spokesman said the top-up money - to be used on the last four race nights of the season on May 25 and June 2, 8 and 16 - would be drawn from the Triple Trio reserve which currently stands at about $60 million.
The spokesman said the move was timed to target an expected surge in betting on soccer matches during the World Cup, which starts on May 31.
"We do a top-up every year but we decided to do the top-up towards the end of the racing season this year," he said.
The Jockey Club's betting turnover was down $1.55 billion halfway through the season. In February club officials warned illegal betting on the World Cup would cut into second-half revenue.
Next week the Legislative Council will enter into the second reading of the Gambling (Amendment) Bill. Under the revised law, all bets, either by phone, Internet or otherwise, with offshore bookmakers will be illegal.
Democratic Party lawmaker Andrew Cheng Kar-foo said that while the amendment bill was in line with the general expectation to tighten gambling, police must properly balance law enforcement and personal freedom.
"We would urge the Government to ensure the police will not be able to intercept Internet messages. That's one big concern for us," he said.
what a brilliant piece of reporting!! firstly headed trio not TT then says BY $20m when other reports would indicate TO 20m and then says race nights instead of days. did i miss any ??

hobbes
06-05-2003, 23:01
as far as i can remember there has only been one of these this season so can someone please remind them ( although TT pools are so low these days may not have enough to fund a $30m j/pot )

cheesebeast
18-06-2003, 19:22
TT kick-start pool stays on ice


ALAN AITKEN


There are plenty of punters around town who were wondering if and when the Jockey Club's betting department was thinking about stimulating some turnover with the Triple Trio jackpot pool. The percentage skimmed off Triple Trio bets and into the jackpot pool to provide an opening jackpot where none existed naturally should have a nice round look about it considering it has not been used once this season.

However, events have overtaken what we presume to have been a cunning plan to spur betting on the final day with a Triple Trio jackpot. As everyone is aware, the inability of punters to nail the TT in recent weeks has already provided a serious starting point for Sunday's finale and we shall have to wait for the 2003-04 season to see what the betting department has come up with for the sum sitting in the TT jackpot pool.


We would trust them implicitly not to do anything foolish with it - like use the money to stimulate racing's rival, soccer betting, when it starts before the new racing season.

jb
23-06-2003, 18:15
Geeeez wheres all the money going ?

Also if they were running a proper ship the 98M carried forward to Aug 31 should include some interest .