View Full Version : HKJC > STEWARDS > SCHRECK.
Wednesday, April 3, 2002
RACING 'Two-length' rule makes sense
By the book: John Schreck banned Shane Dye for six months for a riding offence 15 years ago.
While stewards everywhere can always expect to receive their share of attention, John Schreck's team have unwillingly hogged the spotlight for a couple of weeks. Regardless of what any commentator has concluded regarding the De Integro protest or the Shane Dye-centred incidents with Splendid Bo Bo and Orlando Flyer, the situations have revealed some curious viewpoints in the local media.
One is the criticism of the fundamental two-length rule, as is the idea that the leading horse can go where it pleases without penalty. The latter would have come in useful to Dye 15 years ago in Sydney when the young rider received his first, and only, major penalty in racing after riding a leader in a major race which interfered with several horses by continually shifting out down the straight. Schreck banned Dye for six months, so it is ironic now that he is accused of showing the jockey favouritism.
Contrary to what seems popular belief, the two-length rule was not a Schreck invention. The two-length safety consideration is recognised throughout the world. However, it is not a black and white rule. Racehorses are not words on a page, they are flesh and blood animals ridden by flesh and blood human beings.
Horses do change course without being asked. They can be fast or slow to respond to their riders and circumstances change even while this response is happening. A point in a race is a very fluid situation and jockeys do many things that they may not have done half a second earlier or later.
Stewards are called on in every race to interpret the two-length rule and, in the real world, the breach goes unpunished more often than it is punished. The fact is horses do cross closer, but stewards allow leeway or not due to circumstances. The "two lengths" is a benchmark, but if one can can cross closer but with due care and no danger it is usually allowed. And, to reiterate Dye's comment, even if punters are not as interested as Schreck and his panel in the welfare of horses or jockeys, they have a reason for supporting the safety concerns.
If jockeys only crossed when literally two lengths clear, there would be a lot of horses racing wider and having their chances spoiled. But without the benchmark margin, horses and jockeys would be on the deck with monotonous regularity - and there is no refund if your bet falls or is badly checked.
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John Schreck banned Shane Dye for six months for a riding offence 15 years ago.
i doubt that this has much relevance to the current situation. no doubt Schreck has been head of the stewards panel monitoring a large no. of dye's rides over the last 15 yrs so how often has fig jam escaped too lightly since then.
anyway i started this thread more in defence of Schreck and the stewards than to criticise them.
i think in comparison to the rest of the world the stewards are probably more consistent and open in their rulings than any.
Schreck is, imo, the best HK has had and the best man for the job.
this does not mean they do not make mistakes, but then who doesn't.
also i would like to see them wipe out more trainers instead of penalising only the jockeys for some of the 'questionable'rides.
i think in comparison to the rest of the world the stewards are probably more consistent and open in their rulings than any.
This may be the case but at the moment the media is not allowed into the enquiry room. This is in contrast to Macau where journalists are allowed to witness an enquiry. Let's not forget that even in the case of US military courts for the Taliban and Al Qaeda suspects, journalists will be allowed to attend the trials.
also i would like to see them wipe out more trainers instead of penalising only the jockeys for some of the 'questionable'rides.
Great minds think alike! My understanding is that the Macau JC is a lot tougher with the trainers.
To a certain extent, the local media's dissatisfaction with the HKJC is due to the fact that the Macau JC is seen to be much more customer-friendly and their decisions more transparent. I don't follow Macau racing myself but have heard numerous times on TV talkback programs that the Macau JC is doing a better job. This is a remarkable turnaround given that many people, myself included, usually associate Macau with monkey business rather than fairness and openness. You have to give credit to the Macau JC which has taken the famous Avis advertising slogan "We're number two. We try harder" to heart. On the other hand, the HKJC is still perceived to be arrogant.
great post masun and remarkable indeed that the locals would be comparing the HKJC unfavourably with macau. certainly not something i was aware of at all.
it does seem to me that both EB and Schreck go out of their way to be open and communicative with the press so i hope the media ire is not directed at them but rather the HKJC itself.
from the thread >>
http://www.asianracing.nu/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000011&p=
"It was a clear that the consensus view in Europe was that testing should be unannounced," Webbon said. "We do set store by harmonisation with our European colleagues."
in both areas you mention i like the macau direction so if their policy can force changes on the HKJC then that would be great. ;) :p ;) :p ;) :p ;)
EB has always been highly praised by the local press. He is seen to be diligent and knowledgeable about racing. As for Schreck, he was also much admired until the recent spate of incidents.
Much of the anger towards the JC is directed at the Chief Executive Lawrence Wong. If I remember correctly, soon after Wong's appointment, he had the misfortune of having to deal with the Benji controversy. Robert Moore's threat to sue the JC, Kinane's acquittal and Benji's subsequent wins with Biancome all reinforced the impression that racing in HK was fixed and that Lawrence Wong failed to deal with the issue. That first impression that Lawrence Wong is an outsider who doesn't understand racing still sticks.
Wong's subsequent attempts to lure more crowds to Shatin by hiring singers were met with scorn. Many punters take this as how clueless Wong is about what they really want. "We don't care about the singing. Give us clean racing!" is the oft-repeated refrain from the punters. People often ask, if the Macau JC can do this, why can't the HKJC do it too?
It must also be said the Wong's negative image is not always justified. Wong has been attempting to run the JC like a modern corporation. For example, he is very focused on controlling costs and head counts. Nothing wrong with that. However, many journos have written that since the JC is a charity, it should treat its employees charitably by giving them high pay, shorter working hours, excellent welfare benefits, etc. No doubt many JC employees still remember the good old days fondly when the JC was run like a club rather than a modern, streamlined corporation. They have fed the media with many petty details of how mean a Chief Executive Lawrence Wong is, and some journos, eager to show that they have the right connections, are just too happy to fill their column inches with these "inside" tidbits.
"We don't care about the singing. Give us clean racing!" is the oft-repeated refrain from the punters. People often ask, if the Macau JC can do this, why can't the HKJC do it too?
agree 100% with the above so great to see the media pursuing that line.
It must also be said the Wong's negative image is not always justified. Wong has been attempting to run the JC like a modern corporation. For example, he is very focused on controlling costs and head counts. Nothing wrong with that.
i imagine the JC is under some pressure from the gov't to maintain its contributions to charity and of course the gov't itself is addicted to the revenue its accrues from racing ( like all the others worldwide ) and tends to increase its take each budget. thieves!!!
so LW has to control costs or increase the charge to the punter. presumably neither the media nor the public reading the racing columns want that so they should be very happy he is controlling costs.
However, many journos have written that since the JC is a charity, it should treat its employees charitably by giving them high pay, shorter working hours, excellent welfare benefits, etc.
as i have suggested above this seems a very irrational stance to be taking. ludicrous in fact.
it does seem as though the JC has a severe PR problem dating back to LW's appointment and accentuated in recent times by >
1) the ICAC handling of the Egan, Fradd, Wadey bust. if the latter 2 are never charged with anything ( Egan as well i guess ) then i think it is 'criminal' to announce them as having been arrested. not only does it harm the reputation of the individuals but it creates a very unfavourable image for HK racing worldwide where the headlines often refer to race fixing or corruption.
2) the exceptional/ de integro protest. i happen to think it was correct to uphold the protest but then i believe not enough protests are upheld. in any case on its own it was never such an outrageous decision as the public response implied.
3) the fig jam escape. i haven't seen it but from what i have read he should have copped some sort of penalty for an error of judgement. still the stewards should be forgiven the occasional error of judgement themselves.
so what can the JC do to improve its PR image ??
1) hold open to media stewards enquiries ala Macau.
2) do more to ensure the trainers are following the rules of racing ( including drugs ) instead of only penalising the jockeys, plus follow their own guidelines where trainers who fail to garner the 12 winners the JC have stipulated are replaced sooner.
note especially that the jockeys get 3 mth or 12 mth licences whereas some trainers have survived years beyond their "use by date".
repeated from below >
http://www.asianracing.nu/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000011&p=
"It was a clear that the consensus view in Europe was that testing should be unannounced," Webbon said. "We do set store by harmonisation with our European colleagues."
any other suggestions anyone ?? :) :) :) :) :)
[ April 03, 2002: Message edited by: hobbes ]
hold open to media stewards enquiries ala Macau.
That the JC has resisted this so far is seen as further sign of its arrogance. It's ironic the JC has forced Inglis to be more open, i.e. allow horses to be x-ray'ed by boycotting their sale. Maybe the punters should take a leaf out of the JC's book in forcing it to be more open?
i have been pondering the view of the HKJC as arrogant without really coming up with anything until your last post masun. suddenly i remembered how anti the JC has been to the Macau JC over a large # of years.
presumably part of the reason has been the perception that Macau has been stealing some of the turnover HK would regard as its own. but the turnover in Macau has always been so small compared to HK that such animosity is not justified.
like yourself i have no interest per se in Macau racing but do feel the HKJC has acted like a big bully to its brethren across the water. this attitude would seem unlikely to endear them to anyone - not the HK public nor other racing authorities in the region.
so add to the list of actions the HKJC could take to improve its image would be cooperation with the Macau JC instead of treating it as "unclean".
corkey boy
04-04-2002, 20:01
"However, many journos have written that since the JC is a charity, it should treat its employees charitably by giving them high pay, shorter working hours, excellent welfare benefits, etc".
Now thats laughable. L Wong I don't know much about but cutting costs and streamlining processes etc I applaud.
The HKJC have an image of being leaders in many areas in this town, in some cases even moreso than govt. Theres nothing wrong with trying to lead the way in efficiency too but the club have a long way to go before thats achieved.
I agree that openess and cooperation are other areas where the club still need to pick themselves up from the bottom of the barrel. Shreck and EB are doing their best but are not receiving much support it would seem.
Wednesday, April 3, 2002
ON THE RAILS Balancing act to protect integrity has impact on level of trust
ALAN AITKEN
The Jockey Club has had a curious week balancing the integrity and reputation of its racing. On the one hand, we have John Egan granted a licence in Britain, when he and Robbie Fradd are under suspension pending the outcome of an Independent Commission Against Corruption investigation. On the other, we have quickly followed up the Fair Dinkum-Lucky Dice confusion with an admission from the Club that the Six Win bonus was wrongly calculated on Sunday - reducing the dividend by almost half.
In the first instance, the suspensions were imposed to protect the integrity of Hong Kong racing, but neither man has any case to answer at this point for having undermined that integrity. The actions of the Jockey Club in the UK suggest it is comfortable with the widely regarded concept of innocent until proved guilty, issuing Egan's licence with the footnote that any adverse finding by the ICAC could result in that licence being withdrawn.
That surely was unnecessary since one imagines that any licence is issued to any jockey with a similar understanding. The Jockey Club has said it hoped Hong Kong people would understand what a difficult position the Club faced with the suspension of Fradd and Egan, but that is surely a forlorn hope.
The public must ask what went on that so many were hauled in with, apparently, no reasonable basis and why the Jockey Club felt there was sufficient reason to keep the riders out.
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corkey boy
06-04-2002, 21:04
It would appear that the jockey club have become leaders in stuff ups as well.
Tuesday June 15 1999
Jockey Club making the right moves
ROBIN PARKE
The departures of Clinton P. Pitts Jnr and Martyn Stewart from positions of real authority in Hong Kong racing starkly shows how the industry here is being systematically reshaped.
The appointment of John Schreck as the new chief stipendiary steward and the likely appointment of the internationally known Ciaran Kennelly as senior handicapper, to respectively replace Pitts and Stewart, underline the determination for meaningful change.
The Racing Department is being reshaped by director of racing, Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges, whose own appointment a year ago was a signal for the most important shift of power in Hong Kong racing in decades.
Quite obviously, Engelbrecht-Bresges has shown himself to be very much the right man at the right time.
Much has been made about his bonhomie with the local media, in contrast to his predecessor, Philip Johnston, but that is not what counts. Journalists who believe that it does decidedly overvalue their contributions to the sport here.
Engelbrecht-Bresges is here to take Hong Kong racing into the 21st century and he will get the job done. And you don't get things done in any major sport or venture by being soft.
Hard decisions must be taken and Engelbrecht-Bresges has taken several to date, the most important quite clearly in relation to Pitts and Stewart.
Pitts was a strange appointment in the first place and demonstrably it did not work out as well as it should.
Ironically, while many people will see the decision to make Pitts a roving ambassador for Hong Kong racing, particularly in America, as simply a sinecure, that need not be the case.
Pitts is personable, pleasant and exactly the right type of person for this appointment.
It will be no hardship to have Pitts back in Hong Kong from time to time.
Stewart has come in for criticism from several quarters but it is clear that he has not struck the right note with Engelbrecht-Bresges. It is worth noting that the German racing official has an extremely varied racing background and was a member for some years of the European Pattern racing committee.
He is as easy with a handicapping task as he is with a press conference. And he knows what he wants.
If the Jockey Club does succeed in landing Kennelly, it has managed at a stroke to lift the profile of that particular part of racing to truly international heights. Kennelly is widely respected around the racing world and his presence here would bring the global spotlight firmly on to Hong Kong.
Schreck is also the right man at this time, although longevity of tenure may not come into it.
Schreck brings to the post a lifetime in the industry. Frankly, he should have been appointed years ago but that would never have happened until the shift of power to Engelbrecht-Bresges.
It is believed that Schreck, presumably on a three-year contract, will see that out and a younger man will have been groomed to take his place. It is a scenario that should suit both Schreck and the Jockey Club.
These important, dramatic changes have not been made for changes' sake. They have been made with the firm intention of improving Hong Kong racing.
Few will quibble with that.
i agree with robin that schreck should have been appointed yrs before and believe now that both appointments have been beneficial to HK racing.
Agree that Schreck was a decent addition to the HKJC, despite the recent poor calls.
Also EB.
Not L Wong!!!!
Must have been a close call not to suspend Whyte after the ride on Cullinan , on the point of the home turn he just cut them off..talk about dangerous!
Homer J.
27-04-2002, 15:04
Saturday, April 27, 2002
RACING
No-nonsense Kelly set to shore up stewarding ranks
ALAN AITKEN
Kim Kelly, the deputy chief steward of the New South Wales Thoroughbred Racing Board, will join the judicial team in Hong Kong racing for next season. Kelly, 34, will be the fourth Hong Kong stipendiary steward to have been sourced from Sydney during the past four years, following the appointment of current chief stipe John Schreck, Jamie Stier and Martin Knibbs.
In Sydney last night, Kelly refused to make any comment and neither Schreck nor the Hong Kong Jockey Club was prepared to make any statement about Kelly, or the stewarding arrangements for next season.
Schreck's three-year contract will be completed at the end of June this year and there has been no Jockey Club announcement on his future in Hong Kong, although the South China Morning Post understands he has been asked to extend his stay with the Club in some capacity.
Well known for his stern, no-nonsense approach, Kelly started his career in Brisbane and worked on stewards' panels in Queensland for more than 10 years. In late 1995, he moved to Sydney and within two years had been appointed deputy to current Sydney chief steward Ray Murrihy. Kelly was recently seen at a Sha Tin race meeting, apparently as an observer, but the timing of his visit - just days before the important Golden Slipper meeting in Australia - suggested there was more to his trip than duty-free shopping.
In news on the international races in Singapore next month, trainer Ivan Allan said yesterday he had asked Felix Coetzee to partner Indigenous in the $13 million Singapore International Airlines Cup, the third leg of the World Series.
Coetzee, retained rider for Tony Cruz, was aboard Indigenous for the first time when he ran a slashing third to Eishin Preston in the Queen Elizabeth II Cup last Sunday and Allan wants to stay with what appears to be a good chemistry.
"Felix is a very good jockey and Indigenous ran such a good race for him last weekend, it would be a shame if I had to find someone else who doesn't know the horse at all," Allan said. "However, it will depend on Tony Cruz and whether he is able to release Felix for the day. I appreciate it is not a simple matter as it is a raceday in Hong Kong and Tony naturally has first call on his retained jockey."
Weichong Marwing, who does the bulk of the riding for the Allan stable, will be on Hong Kong Derby winner Olympic Express in the race and the trainer said Marwing was "very likely" to ride Centenary Sprint Cup winner Firebolt in the $4.2 million KrisFlyer Sprint on the same card. Firebolt has been partnered by Frankie Dettori in his two Hong Kong starts to date.
Marwing goes to Turffontein in Johannesburg today with high hopes of a successful "Champions Day" but he won't be the only Hong Kong interest. Robbie Fradd, currently under precautionary suspension in Hong Kong only, has eight rides on the programme, which features the SA Derby and Oaks. Since his return to the saddle earlier this month, Fradd has ridden two winners at the Durban track, Scottsville.
Saturday, April 27, 2002 RACING
No-nonsense Kelly set to shore up stewarding ranks
ALAN AITKEN
Kim Kelly, the deputy chief steward of the New South Wales Thoroughbred Racing Board, will join the judicial team in Hong Kong racing for next season. Kelly, 34, will be the fourth Hong Kong stipendiary steward to have been sourced from Sydney during the past four years, following the appointment of current chief stipe John Schreck, Jamie Stier and Martin Knibbs.
In Sydney last night, Kelly refused to make any comment and neither Schreck nor the Hong Kong Jockey Club was prepared to make any statement about Kelly, or the stewarding arrangements for next season.
Schreck's three-year contract will be completed at the end of June this year and there has been no Jockey Club announcement on his future in Hong Kong, although the South China Morning Post understands he has been asked to extend his stay with the Club in some capacity.
Well known for his stern, no-nonsense approach, Kelly started his career in Brisbane and worked on stewards' panels in Queensland for more than 10 years. In late 1995, he moved to Sydney and within two years had been appointed deputy to current Sydney chief steward Ray Murrihy. Kelly was recently seen at a Sha Tin race meeting, apparently as an observer, but the timing of his visit - just days before the important Golden Slipper meeting in Australia - suggested there was more to his trip than duty-free shopping.
The stewards found a mobile phone in Mosse's locker - pinched him $5000.
I was surprised Premier Speed wasn`t relegated ?
Guess they owed Dougie one... ;)
Wednesday, May 8, 2002 ON THE RAILS
Changing of stewards ruins consistency
If Hong Kong racing is to have consistent stewarding, there must come a time when the tradition of non-professional, non-full time stewards on the raceday panel must be seriously reconsidered. That is not to say that voting stewards or voting members are not worthy of their place at the stewards' table. The extent of their knowledge and understanding is not the issue. The issue is consistency and that simply cannot happen if the personnel continue to change from meeting to meeting by as little as 28 per cent, or, as during Chairmen's Day, by as much as 50 per cent.
Racing anywhere needs to be run by people with a passion for it. Sufficient passion to race horses themselves and to participate. Paradoxically, though, the more involved someone becomes, the more often there is a requirement to step aside at certain decision times. In addition to the five full-time racing stewards at Sha Tin last Wednesday, the chairman was steward Simon S. O. Ip and he was joined by member Anthony Chow Wing-kin, neither of whom should feel this column denigrates him.
That was the starting lineup. However, during the day, Ip was required to stand aside for three of the 10 races due to personal involvement and Chow was unable to sit for race nine. On the occasions when Ip stood down, he was replaced by three different stewards. When Chow stood down from race nine, he was not replaced. All in all, the day saw 10 people sit in the seven raceday stewarding seats.
It is not known how the voting went on Shane Dye's three-day ban out of race nine, but it was a protracted hearing and a close issue. Whether the composition of the panel had a bearing on the final decision is something only those in the stewards' room will know. Regardless, there cannot be a genuine consistency if the opinions change so frequently by a percentage large enough to turn decisions. The panel again had a tricky protest on Sunday and punters who had reconciled themselves to the views expressed in the upholding of the Exceptional-De Integro case must now be scratching their heads trying to line up the policies in that case with the policies in this. The margin was closer, the interference more tangible. Only the booing was missing from a decision that was difficult to fathom in juxtaposition with the previous one.
At Happy Valley, crowding of rightful running and intimidation were the catchphrases. This time they did not count for much. The popular wisdom on Sunday was that had Premier Speed gone straight he would have accounted for Explosive Power more easily. He might have done, but the reality is he did not and is not entitled to any allowance for his erratic running.
The day will come when a Hong Kong Cup is decided by protest or a jockey receives a major ban from the raceday stewards. As the system stands, there is no guarantee that decision will be any more consistent than what is happening now.
seems a bit nitpicky. if they have 5 professional stewards and 2 'honorary stewards', or whatever they might call them, that seems a reasonable balance to me. assuming also that the 'honorary stewards' rotate it doesn't seem of any consequence that one of them stood down for 3 races and was replaced by others from the pool. in fact i find it impressive that S. Ip stood down for 3 races for p'raps some debateable conflict of interest.
I disagree hobbes.
2 out of 7 is a good sort of swing when the issue may not be clear cut, or if it falls to something as tawdry as politics.
I hear the night De Integro was demoted, the 2 Chinese stewards voted erroneously and the member and steward voted with them in racial solidarity because they weren't too sure. That made it 4-3.
Guess that cd still happen with only professional stewards but less likely.
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Horny Harry
09-05-2002, 16:14
Re De Integro...John Shreck was pretty adamant about the result and even though I didnt agree with it, John Boy was firm in his belief. So racial solidarity might be a slightly floral term here?
I hear the night De Integro was demoted, the 2 Chinese stewards voted erroneously and the member and steward voted with them in racial solidarity because they weren't too sure.
Shapke, can you be clearer about what "voted erroneously" means? Exceptional was ridden by Whyte, De Integro by SK Sit. You mean the four Chinese voted in solidarity to demote Chinese apprentice SK Sit so that an expat jockey Whyte could win? Some racial solidarity.
Firstly, Masun, I don't think the identity of the jockeys has anything to do with anything. The identity of the stewards is important however.
Second, Harry - the blood from your brain seems to have left for another part of your salacious being. Whether Schreck agrees with a decision made collectively by his panel or not, he must defend it publicly, and defend it as though it were his decision.
________
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Horny Harry
10-05-2002, 17:39
I think that if you were to have watched the public television announcement made by John Shreck in the days following the De Integro protest, I think that you would have to say that he did much more than just defend the decision publicly because he had to.
I would say that that it was the performance of a man that believed in his statement with every fibre in his body. As an impartial observer I detected a quiet anger, a certain angst at the media outpouring of grief over the voting decision.
Whilst the blood from my brain may leave temporarily during certain occassions for other regions, I can assure you that at the time I watched the Shreck announcement that I was esconsed deliciously on my sofa... alone and drug free.
I backed De Integro that night at good odds and I was sorry to lose the protest. So its not as if I have anything to gain by stating what to me appears to very obvious...that John Shreck believed every word that he stated and believed that the panel had made the right decision.
This in no way implies I liked the decision.
[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Horny Harry ]
shapke you still haven't answered masun's question about "voted erroneously". if the stewards voted with 'racial solidarity' ( which i find a very dubious proposition ) it would indicate a very troubled stewards panel.
as i said before i supported the decision and cannot see any way it was not close enough to make the resultant brouhah 'much ado about nothing'.
Then we will have to disgaree hobbes!
The decision was not correct but more importantly was out of step with the general policies of the chief steward and you would be surprised at who was very unhappy about it.
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I suspect the JC have now taken a new view towards treating favorites in inquiries ?
I`m still stumped as to how Priemier Speed wasn`t relegated on Sunday , straightning up Premier Speed was in lane 2 & Explosive Power was immed outside in lane 3 , at the post theres a head between them & PS is in lane 7 & EP in lane 8 , in the straight PS carried him out twice . I think the best horse finished first but arn`t there clear rules about these situations..please help ?
Where was Shreck with his imaginary lines ?
Back to the issue raised by AA, i.e. whether we should have a full time, professional panel. I see here a parallel with the jury system. The jury system is lousy when dealing with complicated financial fraud cases so there have been calls that such cases should be left to the professionals. On the whole, however, I think few would be willing up to give up the jury system entirely because many see it as an important part of democracy and a crucial safeguard of the impartiality of the judiciary. Likewise, many of us would be reluctant to see independent stewards disappear, even at the price of having an oddball decision every now and then.
Those of us from places where there are no honorary positions on stewards panels would not be unhappy to see them go. The job is tricky enough for pros - who needs a couple of bozos on there who know no more about it than the average guy in the betting shop?
________
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there is a quote ( maybe by churchill ) that goes something like "democracy is a horrible way to run a country, but unfortunately there are none better". i feel something similar about the jury system as the mean IQ of juries would probably be frightening to behold.
around 1980 in oklahoma there were 3 counsellors for each of 81 counties. 240 out of 243 were charged with some form of corruption.
a stewards panel comprising 7 professionals might become a law unto themselves. i quite like the idea of 2 rotating independent stewards despite the fact there is a slightly increased chance of a wrong decision as masun points out. the panel is then subject to a continuing audit.
Churchill did once say something like that:
Many forms of government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
House of Commons, 11 Nov. 1947
corkey boy
11-05-2002, 21:03
Having a pool of honorary stewards would be ok. I imagine the problem being that these people are not fully trained to handle the position.
Does the jockey club have in place a policy and training course designed to help these people better cope with their required tasks ??
I don't believe you can equate this situation to the running of a democracy.
Panels of professional stewards work rather well in Australia and to suggest they become a law unto themselves and begin to make mistakes or flaunt their power then there is no starting point for a correct stewards panel.
By all that has been said by others here, anyway, the 5 of the 7 may hold the balance of power. If they want to rise up and invade Poland then the Firebrand Five could vote that way as a block. Of course, 3 might want to invade Poland and 2 prefer the nearest McDonalds, which might seem a catchy idea to the two bozo stewards on the day and woosh - there goes the war.
The Steward (cap S) is a committeeperson of the club, would own a racehorse or two and therefore be certain to know about as much as the average owner (not a lot) or be a real hobbyist/enthusiast with a wider knowledge of racing but probably would see one race video a month - his own horse. Having said that, the club Stewards are all very successful people in their own fields and thus might be assumed to be fairly intelligent - although the relationship between IQ and racing policeman is tenuous at best.
The Voting Member could be anybody at all, drawn at random from the club members and required to have no interest or knowledge of racing.
There is no training/advice for these people - for that to happen some brave soul in management would have to suggest it is necessary that their ultimate boss requires training.
Racing does not need oddbods doing the professional's job for the sake of appearances of democracy and integrity.
I am a shareholder in Microsoft and own a computer - should I therefore have a turn on the board of directors?
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The best thing to happen in Sydney for years was when Schreck left . There were reports that he couldnt keep his fly up when he most definitely should have . You couldnt blame him though , have a look at him . Not real good for a racecourse jack though .
I am a shareholder in Microsoft and own a computer - should I therefore have a turn on the board of directors?
no shapke you certainly should not. however i imagine the microsoft board does have directors who lack any expertise in the business of selling computer software.
K 1 - couldn't keep his fly up. amazing you should be making that comment as i had the impression yours was more down than up. even if true he would have plenty of company amongst politicians and public figures worldwide.
Homer J.
16-05-2002, 05:27
The Hong Kong Jockey Club is pleased to announce the following staff movements in the
area of Racing Control to take effect in the second half of this year:
1. The contract of Chief Stipendiary Steward, Mr John Schreck, has been extended
up until June 2003.
2. After more than 30 years of service to the Jockey Club, Mr S B Kam has
decided to retire in January 2003 having reached the normal retirement age for
an Executive. Mr Kam has displayed absolute integrity and professionalism
throughout his long and distinguished career with the Club and we are very
appreciative of his efforts throughout the years.
3. Mr Eugene Kwok will be rostered to be on duty on the Stipendiary Stewards
panel when necessary from the start of next season. He will receive further
training and development, both locally and overseas, to prepare him for the
extra responsibilities that he will encounter.
4. Mr Kim Kelly will be appointed as a Club Stipendiary Steward on August 1,
2002. Kim began his career as handicapper with the Queensland Turf Club and
developed interests in the area of racing control soon afterwards. He is married
to Donna with two children.
Homer J.
17-05-2002, 17:30
Money the motive as Killer Kelly flees to Hong Kong
By Craig Young
May 17 2002
Watching brief: TRB chief steward Ray Murrihy, left, who had a big influence on Kim Kelly in NSW and north of the border. Photo: Barry Chapman
NSW Thoroughbred Racing Board chief steward Ray Murrihy needs to find his fourth deputy in seven years, with Kim "Killer" Kelly the latest defector.
Don't for a second think Murrihy rules from the book of Stalin because those that have, and are about to, take up positions in Asia are enticed by money.
"I owe Ray Murrihy a debt of gratitude that cannot be repaid," Kelly said on Wednesday, shortly after announcing he'd be leaving on July31.
Kelly wasn't about to reveal financial details but the money paid to stewards in places like Hong Kong ensures racing authorities there are able to entice the best stipes in the world.
It's the type of money that prompted one former Australian steward to say: "I can earn more in three years overseas than I can in 10 years here."
Kelly follows former TRB deputies Jamie Stier and Ian Patterson overseas. Stier is the No2 steward in Hong Kong and is tipped to take over the top job from former Australian Jockey Club chief steward John Schreck, who will oversee the panel from a newly created position after Christmas.
Patterson, who took over from Schreck at the AJC, was relegated to No2 when Murrihy arrived and, after leaving for the Malaysian racing circuit, is now chief steward in Macau.
Other stewards to leave the panel in NSW are Brett Wright (Macau), Martin Knibbs (Hong Kong), Tom Carlton (Malaysia), Scott Matthews (Singapore) and Peter Chadwick (Singapore), while former stipes Michael Beattie and Steve Ferguson are now in administrative roles within NSW racing.
The escalating departures of stewards, who are taught their crafts in NSW, should be a cause of concern for the local racing industry. Stewards based in Victoria are reported to be on far better money than that paid to their counterparts in NSW. If the mail is correct Victoria's No4 steward is on what Kelly was receiving in this state.
Like Kelly, Murrihy wasn't about to talk about the monetary rewards available to himself and those on his panel, with "The Executioner" preferring to praise the training and development scheme in place.
"It is testament to the NSW industry that it has a system of training and producing stewards of the highest order," Murrihy said on Thursday.
"I still believe we have the best panel of stewards in Australia and we will be looking to recruit from those ranks for the deputy chairman."
Murrihy believes that under his reign the TRB has recruited well, with Kelly imported from Queensland along with Greg Rudolph and Cameron George, while Stephen Carvoso returned from Western Australia.
With about 25 stewards, including trainees, spread across NSW, Murrihy believes better use is being made of the manpower available. "Stewards used to be appointed in association areas and stay there, but now we are able to make them more mobile," Murrihy said.
"They operate under my direction across the state and quite often we move stewards from one area to another instead of using part-time staff."
The 33-year-old Kelly started under Murrihy in Queensland in 1984 and moved to Sydney almost six years ago to fill the void created by Stier's departure.
"Sydney has been the most wonderful experience," Kelly said. "People outside Sydney do not understand what the step up is like - the scrutiny you are placed under and the pressure is more intense than any other racing jurisdiction in the country. You either handle it or you don't - it brings the best out in you."
HKJC racing director Winfried Englebrecht-Bresges told AJC chief executive Tony King recently that Australian stewards were the best "because they look after the punter".
Smithers
21-05-2002, 20:38
21 May 2002
The Stewards of the Jockey Club have considered an application from Jockey W C Marwing to withdraw from his rides at Happy Valley on Wednesday night 22 May 2002. This would allow him to commence the suspension which was imposed on him by the Racing Stewards at Sha Tin last Sunday immediately. The suspension would then expire on Sunday 2 June 2002 on which day he could resume race riding. Jockey Marwing pointed out he has an engagement to ride JEUNE KING PRAWN in Japan on 2 June 2002.
The Stewards of the Jockey Club gave careful consideration to the submissions put by Jockey Marwing but decided it would not be appropriate to mitigate [Rule 8(22)] in relation to the commencement of the suspension and therefore Jockey Marwing should honour his commitments at Happy Valley tomorrow night.
The decision confirms the suspension imposed by the Racing Stewards on 19 May 2002 will commence after the Happy Valley meeting on Wednesday night 22 May 2002.
Horny Harry
21-05-2002, 20:48
I wonder if Marwing will be going to the races at Happy Valley in a bad mood? Will he be riding with his regular does of enthusiasm?
From SCMP story by Alan Aitken this morning:
The night ended on a sour note for Gerald Mosse, who now joins his compatriot Eric Legrix as the early finishers for the term. Mosse received a five-day ban out of his ride on Zietengo Boy in the last race, so with five meetings to go, he has completed his season already. Legrix rode for the last time this season last night.
....NO MENTION OF THIS IN OFFICIAL REPORT ON JC WEBSITE??
[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: shaved ]
blackbeauty
30-05-2002, 20:39
The reason you cannot find it on the HKJC website is simple.
He was not even suspended!
Told you journalists are all morons.
________
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karrie bradshaw
30-05-2002, 22:34
I resemble that remark !
Anyway, at least it made the report a little more interesting.
Never let facts ruin a good story.
I guess Gerald would have been none too happy to pick up his morning paper.
Probbly doesn't know yet - hasn't he gone to Japan?
________
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blackbeauty
31-05-2002, 01:03
Why did the journalist say this or did he just make it up?
that;s what they do
________
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poledancer
31-05-2002, 02:44
I am confused. Was he suspended or not!
[ May 30, 2002: Message edited by: poledancer ]
it seems not. to karrie > absolutely.
seems unlike aitkin to get his stories mixed up so much - especially as he seems to hang around the strwards room and jockeys alot. i havent seen the videos of the ride on zietengo boy but was there a chance 5 days was what he deserved?
Club was right to sack Chow, Tribunal rules
MURRAY BELL
The Labour Tribunal has ruled in favour of the Hong Kong Jockey Club over its dismissal of employee Godwin Chow last year, saying the action was legal and reasonable.
Chow was an employee of the Club in the Landscape and Horticulture Section and doubled as a jockeys' room attendant on racedays. He was called to give evidence in an inquiry involving Irish jockey John Egan in January 2002.
The Irishman was ultimately suspended for attempting to mislead the Jockey Club stewards, and shortly afterwards Chow was dismissed. Egan has since skipped bail and is riding in Britain.
At the time, the Jockey Club's director of racing, Winfried Engelbrecht-Bresges, said of the dismissal: "Godwin Chow had been found in premises being used for illegal bookmaking purposes and he was not truthful at an official inquiry and we believe that is sufficient to warrant his dismissal."
During questioning by then chief steward John Schreck, Egan was asked whether he knew "a chap called Godwin Chow" and the jockey denied knowing anyone by that name.
He later identified Chow from a photograph he said "looked just like the guy who works upstairs".
Stemming from the evidence heard at the Egan inquiry, the Jockey Club removed Chow from his part-time position in the jockeys' room and subsequently asked him to leave the Club altogether.
Chow took the Jockey Club to the Labour Tribunal for unfair and wrongful dismissal, but the adjudicator found the evidence against Chow compelling, saying he believed the former employee had attempted to organise illegal plots to manipulate race results.
The adjudicator also fined Chow $200. Speaking afterwards, Chow said he would appeal the ruling.
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